“If Misfortune is Beautiful…” Helen on The Trojan War

Euripides, Helen 16–36

“The land of my father is not nameless,
Sparta, nor my father Tyndareus. And, indeed, there is
a certain story that Zeus flew to my mother Leda
after he took the form of a swan, a bird,
when he completed this ‘bedding’ deceptively
under the pretext of fleeing an eagle, if the story is true.

I am called Helen. And I should tell you the evils
I have suffered. Three goddesses went to the folds
O Mt. Ida to Alexander about their beauty,
Hera, the Kyprian, and the Zeus-born maiden,
Because they wanted him to complete a judgement of their ‘form’.

My beauty–if misfortune is beautiful–
Is what the Kyprian offered, for Alexander to marry,
In order to win. After Idaian Paris left the cow-stall
He went to Sparta seeking my bed.
But Hera, miffed because she did not defeat the goddesses,
Made my bed with Alexander an empty thing.

She did not give me, but instead, she made
A breathing ghost like me, crafting it from the sky,
For tyrant Priam’s son. He seemed to have me,
And it was an empty thing, because he did not have me….”

ἡμῖν δὲ γῆ μὲν πατρὶς οὐκ ἀνώνυμος
Σπάρτη, πατὴρ δὲ Τυνδάρεως· ἔστιν δὲ δὴ
λόγος τις ὡς Ζεὺς μητέρ’ ἔπτατ’ εἰς ἐμὴν
Λήδαν κύκνου μορφώματ’ ὄρνιθος λαβών,
ὃς δόλιον εὐνὴν ἐξέπραξ’ ὑπ’ αἰετοῦ
δίωγμα φεύγων, εἰ σαφὴς οὗτος λόγος·
῾Ελένη δ’ ἐκλήθην. ἃ δὲ πεπόνθαμεν κακὰ
λέγοιμ’ ἄν. ἦλθον τρεῖς θεαὶ κάλλους πέρι
᾿Ιδαῖον ἐς κευθμῶν’ ᾿Αλέξανδρον πάρα,
῞Ηρα Κύπρις τε διογενής τε παρθένος,
μορφῆς θέλουσαι διαπεράνασθαι κρίσιν.
τοὐμὸν δὲ κάλλος, εἰ καλὸν τὸ δυστυχές,
Κύπρις προτείνασ’ ὡς ᾿Αλέξανδρος γαμεῖ,
νικᾶι. λιπὼν δὲ βούσταθμ’ ᾿Ιδαῖος Πάρις
Σπάρτην ἀφίκεθ’ ὡς ἐμὸν σχήσων λέχος.
῞Ηρα δὲ μεμφθεῖσ’ οὕνεκ’ οὐ νικᾶι θεὰς
ἐξηνέμωσε τἄμ’ ᾿Αλεξάνδρωι λέχη,
δίδωσι δ’ οὐκ ἔμ’ ἀλλ’ ὁμοιώσασ’ ἐμοὶ
εἴδωλον ἔμπνουν οὐρανοῦ ξυνθεῖσ’ ἄπο
Πριάμου τυράννου παιδί· καὶ δοκεῖ μ’ ἔχειν,
κενὴν δόκησιν, οὐκ ἔχων….

Painful Signs: 83 Posts ‘Introducing’ the Iliad

When I started posting on the Iliad last year, I was a bit unsure I would finish the project of a few posts per book, designed both for first time and experienced readers of the Iliad. Once I finished the project in April, this year, I found myself a little worn out and at a loss about what to do next. I am happy with my plan to post less, but to emphasize new or less well-known scholarship on the poem. But I also don’t want to just abandon 83 posts!

I was chatting with my friend (and fellow Homerist) Justin Arft last week and he compared Painful Signs (favorably) to introductory books on epic and suggested I could repackage this project as a book. This compliment made me remember that books can be a pain and that they can’t be updated easily. Also, I wanted this project to be open and available to anyone interested in the Iliad.

This post provides a (somewhat) stable table of contents for the substack posts.

Introductory Material

  1. All the (Epic) Rage: Free Tools for Reading Homer’s Iliad
  2. Polysymphonic: How to Listen to Homer
  3. The Plan, and Imperfect Translations: What the substack is for and how it will proceed
  4. 99 Homeric Problems: On the ‘Homeric Question’ and other similar issues
  5. Reading and Teaching Homer: Some practical advice on encountering Homer alone or in the classroom
  6. Major Themes for Reading and Teaching the Iliad: A summary of five themes emphasized in the substack: (1) Politics, (2) Heroism; (3) Gods and Humans); (4) Family & Friends; (5) Narrative Traditions.

Iliad 1

  1. The Politics of Rage: Some Reading Guidelines for Iliad 1: Politics
  2. Speaking of Centaurs: Paradeigmatic Problems in Iliad 1: On paradeigmata in book 1 and the Iliad
  3. Prophet of Evils: Reading Iphigenia Into and Out of the Iliad: A first post on the Iliad’s relationship with other myths

Iliad 2

  1. From Poetics to Politics: Repairing Achaean Politics in Book 2 of the Iliad: Introduction to Iliad 2, the Diapeira and the Catalog of Ships
  2. Thersites’ Body: Description, Characterization, and Physiognomy in Iliad 2: Disability Studies and Homer; Politics

Iliad 3

  1. (Re-)Starting the Trojan War: Iliad 3 and Helen as Our Guide: the Iliad and narrative traditions; Helen and the teikhoskopia
  2. Heroic Appearances: Or, What Did Helen Look Like?: Physiognomy, part 2; Helen; Beauty
  3. Suffering So Long for this Woman!: Various Ancient Attitudes towards Helen: More On Helen
  4. Long Ago, Far Away: The Iliad and the So-Called Epic Cycle After the Canon: The Epic Cycle, Neoanalysis, Star Wars, and Homer

Iliad 4

  1. Backing Up the Future: Characterization and Rivalry in Iliad 4: The Epipolesis, Agamemnon, and Rivalry
  2. Better than our Fathers!: Theban Epic Fragments and the Homeric Iliad: Inter-mythical rivalries; Agamemnon, Diomedes and Glaukos; Book 4

Iliad 5

  1. Seeing (and Wounding) the Gods: Reading Iliad 5: On Theomachy, Homeric Gods, Aristeia, and Diomedes as a character
  2. Two Ways to Decline Zeus: Paradigm, Text, and Story in Iliad 5: Dione’s story in Iliad 5; Homeric Language, previous myths; paradeigmata again

Iliad 6

  1. Structure and Stories: Reading Iliad 6: Killings and Homeric ‘obituaries’; the structure of Book 6
  2. War Crimes: Iliad 6, Infanticide, and the Mykonos Vase: Homeric Violence; Child killing; enslavement; sexual violence
  3. Mind Reading and Stolen Wits: The Encounter of Diomedes and Glaukos in Iliad 6

Iliad 7

  1. Divine Plots and Human Plans: Reading Iliad 7: Homeric decision making and free will (“double determination”)
  2. Erasing the Past: The Achaean Wall and Homeric Fame: Time and permanence in Homer; The Greek Fortifications and Fame
  3. Give Helen Back!: Trojan Politics in Book 7 of the Iliad: Trojan Politics and the assemblies of Book 7

Iliad 8

  1. Tyranny and the Plot: Introducing Iliad 8: Zeus’ control over the plot of the poem; performance divisions for the epic
  2. Wishing the Impossible: Hektor in Iliad 8: Hektor’s character in the Iliad (part 1)
  3. Stranded in Iliad 8 with Nestor and Diomedes: On Reading the Iliad and Neoanalysis: Neoanalysis and other models for reading the Iliad

Iliad 9

  1. Life, Death, and all the Words Between: Iliad 9 and the Language of Achilles: Achilles: Character Language; Heroism
  2. Two Is Company! The Duals of Iliad 9 and Homeric Interpretation: Duals; Homeric Innovation and traditional language
  3. Achilles Sings the Hero Within: Stories and Narrative Blends in Iliad 9: Paradeigmata, again; cognitive approaches to reading the Iliad

Iliad 10

  1. Night Raids and Gimmick Episodes: Learning to Love Iliad 10: The Doloneia and the authenticity of Book 10; ‘Gimmick Episodes’; Television and Homer
  2. Homeric Redshirts and Iliad 10: Introducing Dolon: Dolon as a character; throwaway figures; physiognomy, again; Television and Homer
  3. Dolon and Achilles; Dolon AS Achilles: Politics and Iliad 10: Trojan Politics, redux; Correlations between Achilles and Dolon

Iliad 11

  1. Time, Feet, and Serious Wounds: Starting to Read Iliad 11: “Monro’s law”; Diomedes’ Foot wound
  2. The Beginning of His Trouble: Characterizing Achilles in Iliad 11
  3. Insidious Inception?: Nestor’s Speech to Patroklos in Iliad 11: Homeric Rhetoric; Persuasion; Paradeigmata, again

Iliad 12

  1. Looking Up and Out: Starting to Read Iliad 12: The Achaean Wall, again; Kleos; Impermanence; Bird Omens; Hektor and Polydamas; “Don’t Look Up!”
  2. Why Must We Fight and Die?: Reading Sarpedon’s Speech to Glaukos in Iliad 12: Heroism; Noblesse Oblige; Kleos
  3. Scarcity and the Iliad: Thinking about Similes in Book 12: Similes in Homer; Cognitive models for reading, 2

Iliad 13

  1. The Iliad‘s Longest Day: Starting to Make Sense of Book 13: Time and the Iliad; Temporal Structure; Chronology
  2. Epic Narratives and their Local Sidekicks: On Cretans in Iliad 13: Epic, epichoric, and Panhellenic; Crete
  3. A Heroic Tale Curtailed: Homeric Digressions and Iliad 13: Digressions/paranarratives or inset tales; Idomeneus; Kassandra

Iliad 14

  1. What A Dangerous Thing to Say! Politics and Absurdity in Iliad 14: Dios Apate seduction of Zeus); Politics; Diomedes
  2. Where Did Homeric Book Divisions Come From? Thinking about the thematic Unity of book 14: Book divisions, Homeric performance; textualization
  3. Falling Asleep after Sex and Other Cosmic Problems: The Seduction of Zeus in Iliad 14: The Dios Apate; the Homeric Hymn to Aphrodite

Iliad 15

  1. Zeus and ‘Righting’ the Divine Constitution: An Introduction to Reading Iliad 15: Divine Politics and Homeric Gods; Hesiod’s Theogony
  2. Brothers, Sisters, Wives, and Divine (Dis)Order: Setting things Straight in Iliad 15: Homeric gods; Zeus and Poseidon; Successions; Politics
  3. The Powerful Mind of Zeus: Revitalizing Hektor and the Iliad‘s Plot: Hektor, Zeus, and the Plot of the Iliad

Iliad 16

  1. There’s Plenty of Crying in Epic: Introducing Book 16: Achilles and Patroklos (Patrochilles); surrogacy
  2. Even Zeus Suffers: The Death of Sarpedon and the Beginning of Universal Human Rights: Death and Funeral rites; Mortals and gods
  3. Merely the Third To Kill Me: Hektor, Patroklos, and the End of Iliad 16: Apostrophe; prophecy; narrative traditions

Iliad 17

  1. Rescuing the Bod(ies): Thinking about the Epic Cycle, Neoanalysis, and Introducing Iliad17: The Epic Cycle, again. Neoanalysis reanalyzed
  2. A Doublet Disposed: Time Travel Paradoxes and the Death of Euphorbus: Time travel and Homer; Television and Homer, again; “All You Zombies”; Digressions
  3. Always Second Best (Or Worst): Characterizing Hektor in Iliad 17: Hektor; Warrior prowess;  poinê (payback)

Iliad 18

  1. Things to Do in Ilium When You’re Dead: Introducing Iliad 18: Chronology, again; Achilles’ first lament; Burden on the earth; the Kypria (Cypria)
  2. The Personal Political: Hektor, Polydamas, and Trojan Politics in Iliad 18: Characterizing Hektor, again; Trojan Politics (Re)redux; Character speech
  3. The Power to Control the World: Achilles’ Shield and Homeric Ekphrasis: Ecphrasis; Achilles’ Shield; “Willow”; Palazzo Pubblico; Hesiodic Aspis

Iliad 19

  1. People Are Going to Tell Our Story: Introducing Iliad 19: Paradeigmata, again; cognitive approaches to reading, again; Achilles and Agamemnon; Politics
  2. That Other Me: Achilles’ Lament for Patroklos in Iliad 19: Achilles and Patroklos, again; Achilles’ Second Lament; Surrogacy; Cognitive approaches to reading, again; Briseis
  3. Dead and Gentle Forever: Briseis’ Lament for Patroklos in Iliad 19: Briseis; Laments; Scholia; Patroklos

Iliad 20

  1. Concerns For Those About To Die: Introducing Iliad 20: Zeus; Gods and humans; Zeus’s will
  2. Spears and Stones will Break Your Bones But Words Will Always Shape You: Aeneas’ Speech to Achilles in Iliad 20: Flyting; Insults; Aeneas and Achilles
  3. The Gamemaster’s Anger and Fear: Homeric Contrafactuals and Rescuing Aeneas: Counter-to-fact statements in Homer; Batman; Zeus and the Plot of the Iliad; Aeneas

Iliad 21

  1. What Do You Do With a Problem Like Achilles? Introducing Iliad 21: Achilles; Sacrifice; narrative judgment
  2. You’re Gonna Die Too, Friend: Achilles’ Speech to Lykaon in Iliad 21: Achilles and Lykaon; Surrogacy; Death; Gilgamesh and Iliad
  3. They’re Just Not That Into Us: On Mortals and Gods in Iliad 21: Gods and mortals; Cosmic history; Hesiod

Iliad 22

  1. Hektor’s Body and the Burden: Introducing Iliad 22: Trauma and Homer; Characterizing Hektor, again; Fight or Flight
  2. Laying My Burdens Down: Hektor Sweet-talks Achilles in Iliad 22: Hektor and Achilles; The Lions of Al-Rassan;  PTSD
  3. A New Widow and Her Orphan: Andromache’s Lament for Hektor in Iliad 22: Women in Homer; Andromache; Laments; Astyanax; PTSD; Trauma

Iliad 23

  1. That Mare is Mine! Introducing Iliad 23: Funeral games; Politics; Athletic Contests
  2. Rage Won’t Raise the Dead: The Ghost of Patroklos in Iliad 23: Achilles and Patroklos, again; tragedy; peripeteia
  3. Achilles’ Wicked Deeds: Framing Human Sacrifice in Iliad 23: Human sacrifice; grief; death

Iliad 24

  1. Disfiguring the Fallow Earth: Introducing Iliad 24: Divine Politics; the trial of Achilles; Apollo; Hesiod’s Theogony
  2. “As If He Were Going to His Death”: Priam and Katabasis in Iliad 24: Katabasis; Ransom; Structural echoes; Hermes and Orphism
  3. “Blow Up Your TV”: Thetis, Achilles, and Life and Death in Iliad 24: Thetis and grief; Gilgamesh; John Prine
  4. Priam And Achilles, Pity and Fear: A ‘tragic’ end to Homer’s Iliad: Cognitive approaches to Homer; Tragedy and Epic; Aristotle
  5. Starving Then Stoned: Achilles’ Story of Niobe in Iliad 24: Paradeigmata, again; cognitive approaches to reading
  6. “Better off Dead”: Helen’s Lament for Hektor in Iliad 24: Laments; Praise; Memory; Helen
  7. The Burial of Horse-Taming Hektor: Ending the Iliad: Hektor; Aithiopis; Ending Epic; Ibycus; Pindar; Kleos
File:Schlagwortkatalog.jpg
h: The subject catalogue (“Schlagwortkatalog”) of the University Library of Graz. The card shown refers to a text by Hans Schleimer who made up the rules for this catalogue. Like this lists of posts, a thing of the past.

Becoming Nobody: A Classics Nostos

A reflection on almost 400 Odyssey shows across all 50 U.S. States and More

In book 9 of Homer’s Odyssey, Odysseus famously recounts the story of how he came across Polyphemus the cyclops, who trapped the trespassing Odysseus in his cave. The titular hero tells the cyclops that his name is οὔτις, or “Nobody.” When Odysseus stabs Polyphemus in the eye with an olive tree trunk, the other cyclopes hear Polyphemus’ distress and run to help him. Polyphemus proclaims that “οὔτις (Nobody) blinded him,” the cyclopes think Polyphemus is a delusional lunatic, and Odysseus is eventually able to escape the cave and be back on his way.

This isn’t the only time in the poem that Odysseus takes on an alternate identity: He routinely uses other names and backgrounds as he tries to find his way back to the island of Ithaka and reestablish himself as the ruler of his household, a journey that spans twenty years from the time he left to fight the war at Troy to when he becomes the final Greek warrior to make it home.

But of these alternate identities, it’s the Nobody trick that feels the most telling and significant. There’s a piece of being a traveling storyteller (as Odysseus is) that makes you aware of both who you are and who you aren’t, something in you that is devoid of identity, which comes untethered when you are away from home. It’s both a freedom and a burden.

I know this feeling. For over twenty years I’ve traveled the world performing an original 24 song one man folk opera of the Odyssey. And I think I’m the only person since, well, Homer’s time, who can say that. 

I’ve played in all 50 US states. I’ve played in Athens and Rome. I’ve played in lecture halls at formal educational institutions like Harvard, Stanford, Oxford, and Cambridge, and I’ve played in a muddy field in Jackson, Mississippi. I’ve played for audiences of elite academic specialists and I’ve played for high school freshman English classes. I’ll let you decide which of those is scarier. 

In total I’ve played my Odyssey almost 400 times. I’m a guy who goes around telling stories about a guy who goes around telling stories.

In this essay, I’d like to share my journey to create my bardic folk opera and what I’ve learned in sharing my work with audiences around the world.

Like Odysseus’ nostos, it’s been anything but a straight line.

παλίντροπος άρμονίη: “ a harmony of opposites”

I remember staring at those words my senior year of high school in the book “Myth of the State” by Ernst Cassirer, drawn to them, frustrated I couldn’t sound them out, break them down, understand them. They were magical. My life had no antecedent for interest in Ancient Greek and I had no idea why, but the words called to me.

So I chased that feeling and took Ancient Greek my first semester at University of Wisconsin-Madison, followed by classes in Classical Mythology and Greek Archaeology my second semester. Quite suddenly (and altogether accidentally) I was a Classics major, a major I previously had no idea existed.

I read Homeric Greek in my fourth semester language class. Like those Greek words my senior year of high school, I vividly remember my initial engagement with the Iliad though I still struggle to describe to my audiences what I felt as this text washed over me and I saw and experienced the poetry for both how it was organized and what it meant.

Sometimes I call it being surrounded by a living breathing organism. Sometimes as being inside the words and feeling a landscape around them. Sometimes as having my head and heart explode at the same time (in a good way I mean…). Sometimes as having my brain rewired. 

All these are good approximations of my first encounter with Homer in Greek but maybe the best way to describe what I felt was connection. Connection to humanity. Connection to the tens of thousands of voices that sang these stories as songs three thousand and more years ago before they were texts, voices which left their residue in and around the words that finally got written and passed down for two and half millennia, improbably landing in front of me, a twenty year old undergrad in an upper Midwest public university who took Ancient Greek because of two words he saw in a book in a public high school in west suburban Chicagoland. 

It was a connection unfacilitated by intellectual calculation.  Academic analysis came later and fleshed out my understanding of perhaps exactly what I was connecting to and how but that initial flash was a pure emotional reaction to a force embedded in the text that was above or below or beside cognition. The text was acting on me and the result was emotional and visceral connection.

For the rest of college, I chased that feeling. I read Homer in translation. I read more Homer in Greek both for class and on my own. I took as many Greek classes as my schedule allowed and loved them all, but none lit me up in quite the same way Homer did. I took the equivalent of two years of Latin in 8 weeks the summer between my sophomore and junior years and survived it (screw you, Wheelock!) but found it didn’t do the same thing for me that Greek did. 

More significantly, I took a Comparative Literature class in which we read the Odyssey and a number of what I would learn were called “receptions,” works inspired by or in response to the original, as well as works that shared some of the themes of the epic. 

The primary theme we considered in that class was the relationship between home and identity. We read (in translation) the Aeneid and the Argonautica. We read Ulysses the novel by James Joyce and Ulysses the poem by Lord Tenneson. We read Omeros by Derek Walcott. We watched movies about journeys to or the search for home: Planet of the Apes (Spoiler alert: they were home all along!), the Wizard of Oz (Spoiler alert: there’s no place like home!), and Waterworld (Spoiler alert: uh… jetski biker gangs are even worse than Scylla and Charybdis?).

It was, in retrospect, ahead of its time: in the year 2024 there are many classes that engage ancient sources alongside modern receptions, receptions in literature, film, music, and other media, but in 1997 this type of framing and syllabus was rare.

What the class did was open my mind and heart to the idea that epic was a tradition not a fixed artifact. And that tradition is open for all to participate in. The stories of the Odyssey and Iliad originated as ephemeral oral performances and for a very long time there were no definitive versions. The truth of the stories was (and is) the sum of all the performances and in particular how tellings inspire retellings.

And the connection that I felt, the connection in which I wanted to participate, was a connection to this chorus of voices that told and retold this story and the audiences that collaborated on the meanings of the tellings.

So after I graduated college in 1999 with a BA in Classics, I went wading in the wine dark sea of epic tradition and wrote my own original 24 song bardic retelling of the Odyssey. I performed it for the first time in my parents’ living room on March 17, 2002, to a score of family and friends.  The journey from performance number one in March of 2002 to performance number 366 (yes, exactly a leap year’s worth of shows) on November 8, 2023, in Stillwater, Oklahoma, the 50th and final US state, could fill 24 books and then some with stories and adventures that rival Odysseus’ in nature and variety but one of the questions I’ve been asked after almost every one of those performances is: 

Why the Odyssey? 

My initial experience with Homer was through the language in the Iliad.  But I chose the Odyssey as the source for my first folk opera (and waited until 2018 to create my Iliad song retelling, The Blues of Achilles). Why?

That same shock of human connection I got from feeling the dactylic hexameter of the Iliad wash over me, I got from thinking about the experiences of the characters in the Odyssey. Thinking about what they were going through and why. Thinking about why a culture found these characters and experiences important enough to preserve in songs and then texts that preserved songs.

Did I identify with Telemachus? Sure. In some ways. But even when I was Telemachus’ age, I felt a pull towards Odysseus. 

A lot of attention is paid to the word πολύτροπον, that untranslatable epithet that modifies ἄνδρα (“man”) in the first line of the poem. But what struck me as more intriguing than πολύτροπον was the whole third line of the epic:

πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω

“He (Odysseus) saw the cities and knew the mind of many men”

From the very beginning, Odysseus is presented as a seeker, a collector of experience. Why? How does he use it and what does he get out of it? Why does he want to hear the Sirens’ song? The tension between his desire for experience and his wish to get home moved me even before I was a traveling bard and got to feel it firsthand as the itinerant bards who told Odysseus’ story surely did as well. 

Current cultural norms are not kind to Odysseus. And I should say that any scorn heaped on his behavior and performance as a leader is fair and apt. But I think that the power of the story and its timelessness lie not in the morality of the characters (certain aspects of morality presented in the poem are clearly culturally determined) but in the power of the text’s portrayal of human behavior with respect to identity, which is complicated (or one might say πολύτροπον) for all of us.

I suspect that some of our discomfort with Odysseus is that we understand there is a little bit of him in all of us. Hopefully not the killing or getting people killed but the tension between our stated beliefs and our behaviors, how that resonates or doesn’t resonate with our identities, how we fit or don’t fit into the homes and societies that formed and produced us.

And nothing will make one feel this tension like becoming Nobody out on the wine dark sea.

A final thought: 

My odyssey is a story of chasing things that moved me even when I wasn’t sure why. It’s one of reintegrating text into its vestigial form of experience to explore how musical elements impact storytelling. It’s one of trying to create the very feeling of connection that inspired me: connection to my own identity and myriad connections between humans who attend my performances, listen to my songs about Nobody, and take the feelings from these performances forward in their own lives to create more connection. 

To participate in this far-reaching chain of human connection, to be even the tiniest part of it, is humbling and beautiful. Becoming Nobody allowed me to become Somebody.

Joe Goodkin is a modern bard who performs original music based on epic poetry and other subjects.  He can be seen and heard at http://www.joesodyssey.com http://www.thebluesofachilles.com or http://www.joegoodkin.com and emailed at joegoodkin@gmail.com about bookings or anything else. He has written about his work on SA before.

My Only Family

Homer, Iliad 6.404-432

[Hektor] smiled when he looked on his child in silence,
But Andromache stood near him, shedding tears.
She took his hand in hers and spoke, naming him,

“Husband, you’re wasting your strength–and you don’t pity
Your infant child or unlucky wife who will soon become
Your widow. The Greeks are going to kill you soon,
All of them attacking one after another. It would be better
For me to have die once I lose you. There’ll be no comfort at all
Once you have met your fate, only pain.

I don’t have a father or queen mother,
Glorious Achilles killed my father on that day
When he sacked the well-populated city of the Kilikians,
High-towered Thebes. He murdered Eetion,
But he didn’t strip him of his weapons, since he felt shame in his heart.
Instead he burned him with all of his fancy arms
And heaped a burial mound up over him then the nymphs
Those mountain daughters of aegis-bearing Zeus, planted elm trees in it.

I had seven brothers in my home.
They all went down to Hades’ realm in a single day.
Over the oxen with their shambling feet and the white sheep.
My mother–who was queen under forested Plakos,
He lead away with the rest of their possessions,
But he released her, after accepting incalculable ransom,
Only for dark-arrowed Artemis to strike her down in her father’s halls.

So Hektor, you are my father and queen mother,
My brother too, as well as my strong husband.
Take pity on me now and stay here on the wall,
Don’t orphan your son and make a widow of your wife.”

ἤτοι ὃ μὲν μείδησεν ἰδὼν ἐς παῖδα σιωπῇ·
᾿Ανδρομάχη δέ οἱ ἄγχι παρίστατο δάκρυ χέουσα,
ἔν τ’ ἄρα οἱ φῦ χειρὶ ἔπος τ’ ἔφατ’ ἔκ τ’ ὀνόμαζε·
δαιμόνιε φθίσει σε τὸ σὸν μένος, οὐδ’ ἐλεαίρεις
παῖδά τε νηπίαχον καὶ ἔμ’ ἄμμορον, ἣ τάχα χήρη
σεῦ ἔσομαι· τάχα γάρ σε κατακτανέουσιν ᾿Αχαιοὶ
πάντες ἐφορμηθέντες· ἐμοὶ δέ κε κέρδιον εἴη
σεῦ ἀφαμαρτούσῃ χθόνα δύμεναι· οὐ γὰρ ἔτ’ ἄλλη
ἔσται θαλπωρὴ ἐπεὶ ἂν σύ γε πότμον ἐπίσπῃς
ἀλλ’ ἄχε’· οὐδέ μοι ἔστι πατὴρ καὶ πότνια μήτηρ.
ἤτοι γὰρ πατέρ’ ἁμὸν ἀπέκτανε δῖος ᾿Αχιλλεύς,
ἐκ δὲ πόλιν πέρσεν Κιλίκων εὖ ναιετάουσαν
Θήβην ὑψίπυλον· κατὰ δ’ ἔκτανεν ᾿Ηετίωνα,
οὐδέ μιν ἐξενάριξε, σεβάσσατο γὰρ τό γε θυμῷ,
ἀλλ’ ἄρα μιν κατέκηε σὺν ἔντεσι δαιδαλέοισιν
ἠδ’ ἐπὶ σῆμ’ ἔχεεν· περὶ δὲ πτελέας ἐφύτευσαν
νύμφαι ὀρεστιάδες κοῦραι Διὸς αἰγιόχοιο.
οἳ δέ μοι ἑπτὰ κασίγνητοι ἔσαν ἐν μεγάροισιν
οἳ μὲν πάντες ἰῷ κίον ἤματι ῎Αϊδος εἴσω·
πάντας γὰρ κατέπεφνε ποδάρκης δῖος ᾿Αχιλλεὺς
βουσὶν ἐπ’ εἰλιπόδεσσι καὶ ἀργεννῇς ὀΐεσσι.
μητέρα δ’, ἣ βασίλευεν ὑπὸ Πλάκῳ ὑληέσσῃ,
τὴν ἐπεὶ ἂρ δεῦρ’ ἤγαγ’ ἅμ’ ἄλλοισι κτεάτεσσιν,
ἂψ ὅ γε τὴν ἀπέλυσε λαβὼν ἀπερείσι’ ἄποινα,
πατρὸς δ’ ἐν μεγάροισι βάλ’ ῎Αρτεμις ἰοχέαιρα.
῞Εκτορ ἀτὰρ σύ μοί ἐσσι πατὴρ καὶ πότνια μήτηρ
ἠδὲ κασίγνητος, σὺ δέ μοι θαλερὸς παρακοίτης·
ἀλλ’ ἄγε νῦν ἐλέαιρε καὶ αὐτοῦ μίμν’ ἐπὶ πύργῳ,
μὴ παῖδ’ ὀρφανικὸν θήῃς χήρην τε γυναῖκα·
λαὸν δὲ στῆσον παρ’ ἐρινεόν, ἔνθα μάλιστα
ἀμβατός ἐστι πόλις καὶ ἐπίδρομον ἔπλετο τεῖχος.
τρὶς γὰρ τῇ γ’ ἐλθόντες ἐπειρήσανθ’ οἱ ἄριστοι
ἀμφ’ Αἴαντε δύω καὶ ἀγακλυτὸν ᾿Ιδομενῆα
ἠδ’ ἀμφ’ ᾿Ατρεΐδας καὶ Τυδέος ἄλκιμον υἱόν·
ἤ πού τίς σφιν ἔνισπε θεοπροπίων ἐ¿ εἰδώς,
ἤ νυ καὶ αὐτῶν θυμὸς ἐποτρύνει καὶ ἀνώγει.

Oil painting of Hektor departing from Andromache and Astyanax
John Smibert, “Parting of Hector and Andromache ” MFA Boston 17th Century

The Iliad, a Final Word

Homer, Iliad 24.804

“And so they were completing the burial of horse-taming Hektor”

῝Ως οἵ γ’ ἀμφίεπον τάφον ῞Εκτορος ἱπποδάμοιο.

Schol. bT ad. Hom. Il. 21.804

“Menekrates claims that because he sensed his own weakness and inability [to tell their stories] equally, the poet decided to stay silent about the events after Hektor. The rest of the story is served up well in [the stories] told in the Odyssey. There is really only a summary about the house of Odysseus there. The leftovers remain in the stories Odysseus, Nestor, Menelaus, and lyre-playing Demodokos relate. The brief sack of the city is not worth describing”

Μενεκράτης (cf. F.H.G. II p. 345) φησὶν αἰσθόμενον ἑαυτοῦ ἀσθενείας τὸν ποιητὴν καὶ τοῦ μὴ ὁμοίως δύνασθαι φράζειν σιωπῆσαι τὰ μεθ’ ῞Εκτορα. καλῶς δὲ ἐταμιεύσατο τὰ λοιπὰ ἑαυτῷ τῶν †ζητημάτων† εἰς τὴν ᾿Οδύσσειαν· μικρὰ γὰρ ἦν ἡ ὑπόθεσις περὶ τῆς οἰκίας ᾿Οδυσ-σέως μόνον· τὰ γὰρ λείψανα ἐκεῖ ἃ μὲν ᾿Οδυσσεύς (cf. ι 39—μ 453), ἃ δὲ Νέστωρ (cf. γ 98—312) καὶ Μενέλαος (cf. δ 341—586), ἃ δὲΔημόδοκος κιθαρίζων (cf. θ 73—82. 499—520) φασίν. ἄλλως τε πολιορκίαν μακρὰν οὐκ ἄξιον διηγεῖσθαι.

 

Schol. T ad. Hom. Il. 21.804a

“Some people write “and so they were completing the burial of Hektor. Then the Amazon came / the daughter of Ares, the great-hearted man-killer”

τινὲς γράφουσιν „ὣς οἵ γ’ ἀμφίεπον τάφον ῞Εκτορος· ἦλθε δ’ ᾿Αμαζών, / ῎Αρηος θυγάτηρ μεγαλήτορος ἀνδροφόνοιο” (804. 804a).

This photograph shows a section of the GISP2 ice core from 1837-1838 meters in which annual layers are clearly visible. The appearance of layers results from differences in the size of snow crystals deposited in winter versus summer and resulting variations in the abundance and size of air bubbles trapped in the ice. Counting such layers has been used (in combination with other techniques) to reliably determine the age of the ice. This ice was formed ~16250 years ago during the final stages of the last ice age and approximately 38 years are represented here. By analyzing the ice and the gases trapped within, scientists are able to learn about past climate conditions.

 

The Trojan War Took 30 Years, Not 20

Homer, Iliad 24.761-775

“Among them then Helen was the third to take up the lament”
‘Hektor, you were by far the dearest of my in-laws—
My husband was actually godlike Alexandros,
The one who brought me to Troy. I wish I had died before that.
This is the twentieth years since I arrived from there
And I left my own homeland.
But I have never heard an evil or cruel word from you.
But if anyone else in our home would criticize me,
One of your brothers or sisters or one of their spouses
Or my mother in law—since your father was always as gentle as my own
Then you would hold them back by persuading them with words,
With your very kindness and your kind words.
So, I am weeping for you now and my unlucky self, aggrieved in my heart.
No one else in the wide land of Troy will be here for me,
As gentle and as dear, and everyone else is rough to me.’ ”

http://www.jstor.org/stable/20054056.
τῇσι δ’ ἔπειθ’ ῾Ελένη τριτάτη ἐξῆρχε γόοιο·
῞Εκτορ ἐμῷ θυμῷ δαέρων πολὺ φίλτατε πάντων,
ἦ μέν μοι πόσις ἐστὶν ᾿Αλέξανδρος θεοειδής,
ὅς μ’ ἄγαγε Τροίηνδ’· ὡς πρὶν ὤφελλον ὀλέσθαι.
ἤδη γὰρ νῦν μοι τόδε εἰκοστὸν ἔτος ἐστὶν
ἐξ οὗ κεῖθεν ἔβην καὶ ἐμῆς ἀπελήλυθα πάτρης·
ἀλλ’ οὔ πω σεῦ ἄκουσα κακὸν ἔπος οὐδ’ ἀσύφηλον·
ἀλλ’ εἴ τίς με καὶ ἄλλος ἐνὶ μεγάροισιν ἐνίπτοι
δαέρων ἢ γαλόων ἢ εἰνατέρων εὐπέπλων,
ἢ ἑκυρή, ἑκυρὸς δὲ πατὴρ ὣς ἤπιος αἰεί,
ἀλλὰ σὺ τὸν ἐπέεσσι παραιφάμενος κατέρυκες
σῇ τ’ ἀγανοφροσύνῃ καὶ σοῖς ἀγανοῖς ἐπέεσσι.
τὼ σέ θ’ ἅμα κλαίω καὶ ἔμ’ ἄμμορον ἀχνυμένη κῆρ·
οὐ γάρ τίς μοι ἔτ’ ἄλλος ἐνὶ Τροίῃ εὐρείῃ
ἤπιος οὐδὲ φίλος, πάντες δέ με πεφρίκασιν.

Schol bT A ad Hom, Il. 24.765b

“The twentieth year? Wrong. This can’t be the twentieth year. From the time Helen went to Troy it is established that the gathering of the army happened but that in the twentieth, Odysseus returned to Ithaka.

There was a lot of time wasted in wandering then too.

It is asserted that they spent ten years getting the army together and then they were slowed down by a storm on their own and then once they came to Aulis. So, now is the 20th year since the theft of Helen.

Ten years for the gathering of the army must be added to the Odyssey.”

εἰκοστὸν ἔτος: ψευδές· οὐ γὰρ εἰκοστὸν ἔτος δύναται εἶναι, ἐξ οὗ εἰς τὸ ῎Ιλιον ἦλθεν ῾Ελένη, εἴγε δεκαετὴς μὲν ἡ τοῦ πολέμου παρασκευὴ ὁμολογεῖται γεγονέναι, εἰκοστῷ δὲ ᾿Οδυσσεὺς ἐνιαυτῷ εἰς τὴν ᾿Ιθάκην ἐπανελήλυθε, A b (BCE4)T πολὺν ἐν τῇ πλάνῃ ἐνδιατρίψας χρόνον. AT ῥητέον δὲ ὅτι δέκα ἔτη ἐστρατολόγουν χειμάζοντες ἐν ταῖς ἰδίαις καὶ θέρους εἰς Αὐλίδα ἀφικνούμενοι, νῦν δὲ εἰκοστὸν ἔτος ἐστὶν ἀπὸ τῆς ἁρπαγῆς ῾Ελένης.

ἐπὶ δὲ ᾿Οδυσσέως τὰ δέκα ἔτη τῆς στρατολογίας ἀριθμητέον.

Schol. D ad Hom. Il. 24.765

“The army of the Greeks was gathered over ten years, and another ten years was spent on the siege of Troy.”

Δεκαετίᾳ γὰρ ἠθροίσθη ὁ στρατὸς τῶν ῾Ελλήνων, δεκαετίᾳ δὲ ἄλλῃ ἐπορθήθη ἡ Ιλιος.

color photograph of a wooden horse
From the Manchester Museum: https://multilingualmuseum.manchester.ac.uk/object/toy-horse-with-wheels/

Zeus Will Be Angry if He Dies

Homer, Iliad 20.288-308

Then Aeneas would have struck [Achilles] as he rushed at him
With a stone in the helmet or shield, which would have projected him from ruin,
But Peleus’s son would have robbed him of his life with his sword near at hand—
If Poseidon the earth-shaker had not sharply noticed it all.
Immediately, he spoke this speak among the immortal gods:
“Shit! Truly, I have grief for great-hearted Aeneas
Who soon will go to Hades overcome by Peleus’ son,
All because he listened to the words of far-shooting Apollo,
The fool, that god will not be of any use against harsh ruin.
But why should this guy who isn’t at fault suffer grief now
Without any reason because of other people’s pain when he always
Gave cherished gifts to the gods who hold the wide sky.
But come on, let’s lead him away from death
So that Kronos’ son won’t get enraged somehow if Achilles
Kills him. It is his fate to escape
So that the race of Dardanos won’t go seedless and erased,
Dardanos whom the son of Kronos loved beyond all his children
Who were born to him from mortal women.
Kronos’ son has already turned against Priam’s offspring.
Now, mighty Aeneas will be lord over the Trojans
Along with the children of his children who will be born later on.”

ἔνθά κεν Αἰνείας μὲν ἐπεσσύμενον βάλε πέτρῳ
ἢ κόρυθ’ ἠὲ σάκος, τό οἱ ἤρκεσε λυγρὸν ὄλεθρον,
τὸν δέ κε Πηλεΐδης σχεδὸν ἄορι θυμὸν ἀπηύρα,
εἰ μὴ ἄρ’ ὀξὺ νόησε Ποσειδάων ἐνοσίχθων·
αὐτίκα δ’ ἀθανάτοισι θεοῖς μετὰ μῦθον ἔειπεν·
ὢ πόποι ἦ μοι ἄχος μεγαλήτορος Αἰνείαο,
ὃς τάχα Πηλεΐωνι δαμεὶς ῎Αϊδος δὲ κάτεισι
πειθόμενος μύθοισιν ᾿Απόλλωνος ἑκάτοιο
νήπιος, οὐδέ τί οἱ χραισμήσει λυγρὸν ὄλεθρον.
ἀλλὰ τί ἢ νῦν οὗτος ἀναίτιος ἄλγεα πάσχει
μὰψ ἕνεκ’ ἀλλοτρίων ἀχέων, κεχαρισμένα δ’ αἰεὶ
δῶρα θεοῖσι δίδωσι τοὶ οὐρανὸν εὐρὺν ἔχουσιν;
ἀλλ’ ἄγεθ’ ἡμεῖς πέρ μιν ὑπὲκ θανάτου ἀγάγωμεν,
μή πως καὶ Κρονίδης κεχολώσεται, αἴ κεν ᾿Αχιλλεὺς
τόνδε κατακτείνῃ· μόριμον δέ οἵ ἐστ’ ἀλέασθαι,
ὄφρα μὴ ἄσπερμος γενεὴ καὶ ἄφαντος ὄληται
Δαρδάνου, ὃν Κρονίδης περὶ πάντων φίλατο παίδων
οἳ ἕθεν ἐξεγένοντο γυναικῶν τε θνητάων.
ἤδη γὰρ Πριάμου γενεὴν ἔχθηρε Κρονίων·
νῦν δὲ δὴ Αἰνείαο βίη Τρώεσσιν ἀνάξει
καὶ παίδων παῖδες, τοί κεν μετόπισθε γένωνται.

Schol. T Ad Hom. Il. 20.307-8

“Some people say that [the children of Aeneas live on] through the Romans, which the poet knew from the oracles of the Sibyl, while others claim that the Aiolians expelled the descendants of Aeneas. But those who claim that Aphrodite devised the Trojan War because she knew this are wrong”

οἱ μὲν διὰ ῾Ρωμαίους φασίν, ἅπερ εἰδέναι τὸν ποιητὴν ἐκ τῶν Σιβύλλης
χρησμῶν, οἱ δέ, ὅτι Αἰολεῖς ἐξέβαλον τοὺς ἀπογόνους Αἰνείου. πταί-
ουσι δέ, ὅσοι φασὶ τοῦτο εἰδυῖαν ᾿Αφροδίτην μηχανήσασθαι τὸν
Τρωϊκὸν πόλεμον.

Black figure vase of Aeneas carrying his father Anchises
MET Accession number: 56.171.26 C. 500 BCE

Zeus’ Pity and Tears of Blood

For a longer commentary on this passage, see “Even Zeus Suffers…” on Painful Signs

Homer, Iliad 16.431-461

“As the son of crooked-minded Kronos was watching them, he felt pity
And he addressed Hera, his sister and wife:
“Shit. Look, it is fate for the man most dear to me, Sarpedon,
To be overcome by Patroklos, son of Menoitios.
My hearts is split in two as I rush through my thoughts:
Either I will snatch him up still alive from the lamentable battle
And set him down in the rich deme of Lykia,
Or I will overcome him already at the hands of Patroklos.”

“Then queen, ox-eyed Hera answered him
Most shameful son of Kronos, what kind of a thing have you said.
Do you really want to rescue from discordant death
When it was long ago fated for this man because he is mortal?
Do it. But the rest of the gods will not praise you for it.
I’ll tell you something else, and keep this in your thoughts:
If you send Sarpedon alive to his own home,
Think about how one of the other gods won’t want
To send their dear son free of the oppressive conflict.
For around the great city of Priam there are many sons
Of the immortals fighting, and you will incite rage in those gods.
But if this is ear to you, and your heart does mourn,
Let him stay in the oppressive battle indeed
To be overcome by the hands of Patroklos, Menoitios’ son.
Then when his soul and and his life leaves him,
Have death and sweet sleep take him until
They arrive at the land of broad Lykia.
There, his relatives and friends will bury him
With a tomb and a marker. This is the honor due to the dead.

“So she spoke, and the father of men and gods did not disobey her.
He was shedding bloody teardrops to the ground,
Honoring his dear son, the one Patroklos was about to destroy
Far off from his fatherland in fertile Troy.”

τοὺς δὲ ἰδὼν ἐλέησε Κρόνου πάϊς ἀγκυλομήτεω,
῞Ηρην δὲ προσέειπε κασιγνήτην ἄλοχόν τε·
ὤ μοι ἐγών, ὅ τέ μοι Σαρπηδόνα φίλτατον ἀνδρῶν
μοῖρ’ ὑπὸ Πατρόκλοιο Μενοιτιάδαο δαμῆναι.
διχθὰ δέ μοι κραδίη μέμονε φρεσὶν ὁρμαίνοντι,
ἤ μιν ζωὸν ἐόντα μάχης ἄπο δακρυοέσσης
θείω ἀναρπάξας Λυκίης ἐν πίονι δήμῳ,
ἦ ἤδη ὑπὸ χερσὶ Μενοιτιάδαο δαμάσσω.
Τὸν δ’ ἠμείβετ’ ἔπειτα βοῶπις πότνια ῞Ηρη·
αἰνότατε Κρονίδη ποῖον τὸν μῦθον ἔειπες.
ἄνδρα θνητὸν ἐόντα πάλαι πεπρωμένον αἴσῃ
ἂψ ἐθέλεις θανάτοιο δυσηχέος ἐξαναλῦσαι;
ἔρδ’· ἀτὰρ οὔ τοι πάντες ἐπαινέομεν θεοὶ ἄλλοι.
ἄλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ’ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν·
αἴ κε ζὼν πέμψῃς Σαρπηδόνα ὃν δὲ δόμον δέ,
φράζεο μή τις ἔπειτα θεῶν ἐθέλῃσι καὶ ἄλλος
πέμπειν ὃν φίλον υἱὸν ἀπὸ κρατερῆς ὑσμίνης·
πολλοὶ γὰρ περὶ ἄστυ μέγα Πριάμοιο μάχονται
υἱέες ἀθανάτων, τοῖσιν κότον αἰνὸν ἐνήσεις.
ἀλλ’ εἴ τοι φίλος ἐστί, τεὸν δ’ ὀλοφύρεται ἦτορ,
ἤτοι μέν μιν ἔασον ἐνὶ κρατερῇ ὑσμίνῃ
χέρσ’ ὕπο Πατρόκλοιο Μενοιτιάδαο δαμῆναι·
αὐτὰρ ἐπὴν δὴ τόν γε λίπῃ ψυχή τε καὶ αἰών,
πέμπειν μιν θάνατόν τε φέρειν καὶ νήδυμον ὕπνον
εἰς ὅ κε δὴ Λυκίης εὐρείης δῆμον ἵκωνται,
ἔνθά ἑ ταρχύσουσι κασίγνητοί τε ἔται τε
τύμβῳ τε στήλῃ τε· τὸ γὰρ γέρας ἐστὶ θανόντων.

῝Ως ἔφατ’, οὐδ’ ἀπίθησε πατὴρ ἀνδρῶν τε θεῶν τε·
αἱματοέσσας δὲ ψιάδας κατέχευεν ἔραζε
παῖδα φίλον τιμῶν, τόν οἱ Πάτροκλος ἔμελλε
φθίσειν ἐν Τροίῃ ἐριβώλακι τηλόθι πάτρης.

Color Photograph of a vase showing Sarpedon’s body carried by Hypnos and Thanatos (Sleep and Death), while Hermes watches. Side A of the so-called “Euphronios krater”, Attic red-figured calyx-krater signed by Euxitheos (potter) and Euphronios (painter), ca. 515 BC.
Sarpedon’s body carried by Hypnos and Thanatos (Sleep and Death), while Hermes watches. Side A of the so-called “Euphronios krater”, Attic red-figured calyx-krater signed by Euxitheos (potter) and Euphronios (painter), ca. 515 BC.

Imagine Escaping War

Homer, Iliad 12.310-328

‘Glaukos, why are you and I honored before others
by place, the best meat and cups filled with wine
in Lykia, and all men look on us as gods,
and we have great tracts of land Xanthos’ banks,
good holdings with orchards and vineyards, farmland for wheat too?
Because of this we must stand at the head of the Lykians
and take our part of the burden of battle’s fire
so that one of those well-armored Lykians may see us and say:
“Indeed, these lords of Lykia are no base-born men,
these kings of ours, who dine on the fatted sheep selected for them
and drink the finest wine, since there is in fact strength
and courage in them, when they fight in the forefront of the Lykians.”

But, friend, imagine if you and I could escape this battle
and be able to live forever, ageless, immortal–
then neither would I myself go on fighting in the frontlines
nor would I tell you to seek the fighting that brings us glory.
But now, since death’s ghosts stand around us numbered
in their thousands and no person can ever escape them,
let’s go on and claim this glory for ourselves or give it to others in turn.”

Γλαῦκε τί ἢ δὴ νῶϊ τετιμήμεσθα μάλιστα
ἕδρῃ τε κρέασίν τε ἰδὲ πλείοις δεπάεσσιν
ἐν Λυκίῃ, πάντες δὲ θεοὺς ὣς εἰσορόωσι,
καὶ τέμενος νεμόμεσθα μέγα Ξάνθοιο παρ’ ὄχθας
καλὸν φυταλιῆς καὶ ἀρούρης πυροφόροιο;
τὼ νῦν χρὴ Λυκίοισι μέτα πρώτοισιν ἐόντας
ἑστάμεν ἠδὲ μάχης καυστείρης ἀντιβολῆσαι,
ὄφρά τις ὧδ’ εἴπῃ Λυκίων πύκα θωρηκτάων·
οὐ μὰν ἀκλεέες Λυκίην κάτα κοιρανέουσιν
ἡμέτεροι βασιλῆες, ἔδουσί τε πίονα μῆλα
οἶνόν τ’ ἔξαιτον μελιηδέα· ἀλλ’ ἄρα καὶ ἲς
ἐσθλή, ἐπεὶ Λυκίοισι μέτα πρώτοισι μάχονται.
ὦ πέπον εἰ μὲν γὰρ πόλεμον περὶ τόνδε φυγόντε
αἰεὶ δὴ μέλλοιμεν ἀγήρω τ’ ἀθανάτω τε
ἔσσεσθ’, οὔτέ κεν αὐτὸς ἐνὶ πρώτοισι μαχοίμην
οὔτέ κε σὲ στέλλοιμι μάχην ἐς κυδιάνειραν·
νῦν δ’ ἔμπης γὰρ κῆρες ἐφεστᾶσιν θανάτοιο
μυρίαι, ἃς οὐκ ἔστι φυγεῖν βροτὸν οὐδ’ ὑπαλύξαι,
ἴομεν ἠέ τῳ εὖχος ὀρέξομεν ἠέ τις ἡμῖν.

: Patroclus (naked, on the right) kills Sarpedon (wearing Lycian clothes, on the left) with his spear, while Glaucus comes to the latter's help.
He did give glory to someone else. Protolucana red-figure hydria by the Policoro Painter, ca. 400 BC. From the so-called tomb of the Policoro Painter in Heraclaea. Stored in the Museo Nazionale Archaeologico of Policoro.

For a discussion of the importance of this speech with bibliography, see Painful Signs

How Do You Say Trick-Or-Treat in Latin and Greek?

repeated, but an important thread

Send me more languages and more suggestions and I will add them.

Latin — Aut dulcia aut dolum

Modern Greek: φάρσα ή κέρασμα

Ancient Greek: δόλος ἢ μισθός (see below for citation)

I prefer: δόλος ἢ δῶρον (but will take some suggestion for candy or sweet)

But what I really like is δόλος ἢ ξείνιον because I think Odysseus is the original trick(ster)-treater.

Odyssey 9.174-76

‘After I arrive, I will test these men, whoever they are,
Whether they are arrogant and wild, unjust men
Or kind to guests with a godfearing mind.”

ἐλθὼν τῶνδ’ ἀνδρῶν πειρήσομαι, οἵ τινές εἰσιν,
ἤ ῥ’ οἵ γ’ ὑβρισταί τε καὶ ἄγριοι οὐδὲ δίκαιοι,
ἦε φιλόξεινοι, καί σφιν νόος ἐστὶ θεουδής.’

9.229: “So that I might see him and whether he will give me guest gifts”
ὄφρ’ αὐτόν τε ἴδοιμι, καὶ εἴ μοι ξείνια δοίη.

9.406 “Really, is no one killing you by trick or by force?
ἦ μή τίς σ’ αὐτὸν κτείνει δόλῳ ἠὲ βίηφι;’

9.408 “Friends, No one is killing me with trick or force.”
‘ὦ φίλοι, Οὖτίς με κτείνει δόλῳ οὐδὲ βίηφιν.’

14.330 “absent already for a while, either openly or secretly”
ἤδη δὴν ἀπεών, ἢ ἀμφαδὸν ἦε κρυφηδόν.

cf.  Dutch “treats or your life”

There is this too:

Also:

Image result for Ancient GReek odysseus in disguise

Twitter

https://twitter.com/Nanocyborgasm/status/922826477346926592

Facebook: How do you say trick or trick in Latin?

Euthyphro: How DO you say “trick or treat” in Latin?

Socrates: I’ve sometimes used “Aut dulcia aut dolum!”

Sententiae Antiquae Working on it…

Ion: ‘Dolus donumve’ or indeed ‘dolus nisi donum’

Thrasymachus: While I like the alliteration, I don’t think *donum* works here.

As a “trick”—in this sense—isn’t really a deceit (more like a joke), and as the “treat” is something trifling (not a *gift*, which carries a sense of formality), I am wondering on something like “nugas nucesve,” “jests or nuts.”

While nuces were strewn at wedding and festivals (I’m thinking of the throwing of small bits of candy at bar mitzvahs, etc.), they were also children’s playthings, which captures, I think the idea of “treat,” as something given informally, even anonymously, and without expectation of return

You need the accusative, not the nominative.

Cratylus:  Dulcia aut ludos?