Tag: Plato

Drunkenness, The Reward of Virtue: Plato, Republic 2.363c

~ Erik ~ Leave a comment

“Musaeus and his son give even more novel goods from the gods to the just. In their tales, they lead them to Hades, put them on couches, and prepare a symposium of the blessed, where they spend all of their time crowned and drunk, because the authors think that the finest reward for virtue is eternal inebriation.”

Μουσαῖος δὲ τούτων νεανικώτερα τἀγαθὰ καὶ ὁ ὑὸς αὐτοῦ παρὰ θεῶν διδόασιν τοῖς δικαίοις· εἰς ῞Αιδου γὰρ ἀγαγόντες τῷ λόγῳ καὶ κατακλίναντες καὶ συμπόσιον τῶν ὁσίων κατασκευάσαντες ἐστεφανωμένους ποιοῦσιν τὸν ἅπαντα χρόνον ἤδη διάγειν μεθύοντας, ἡγησάμενοι κάλλιστον ἀρετῆς μισθὸν μέθην αἰώνιον.

Zoilos the Jealous Zealot: Aelian on a World-Class Hater

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ Leave a comment

11.10

 

Zôilos of Amphipolos, who wrote against Homer, Plato and others, was in attendance at a speech of Polycrates. Polycrates wrote a diatribe against Socrates. Zôilos himself used to be called the rhetorical Dog, and he was this kind of man: he had a beard though he shaved his head and he wore a coat above his knee. He loved to carp in public and he spent his time picking fights with many men: he was a complaining, mean-spirited man. When some educated man asked him why he spoke poorly of everyone, he said: “I cannot do them harm when I want to.”

Ζωίλος ὁ ᾿Αμφιπολίτης ὁ καὶ ἐς ῞Ομηρον γράψας καὶ ἐς Πλάτωνα καὶ ἐς ἄλλους, Πολυκράτους μὲν ἀκουστὴς ἐγένετο· οὗτος δὲ ὁ Πολυκράτης καὶ τὴν κατηγορίαν ἔγραψε τὴν κατὰ Σωκράτους. ἐκαλεῖτο δ’ ὁ Ζωίλος οὗτος Κύων ῥητορικός. ἦν δὲ τοιοῦτος. τὸ μὲν γένειον αὐτῷ καθεῖτο, κέκαρτο δὲ ἐν χρῷ τὴν κεφαλήν, καὶ θοιμάτιον ὑπὲρ τὸ γόνυ ἦν. ἤρα δὲ ἀγορεύειν κακῶς, καὶ ἀπεχθάνεσθαι πολλοῖς σχολὴν εἶχε, καὶ ψογερὸς ἦν ὁ κακοδαίμων. ἤρετο οὖν αὐτόν τις τῶν πεπαιδευμένων διὰ τί κακῶς λέγει πάντας· ὃ δὲ ‘ποιῆσαι γὰρ κακῶς βουλόμενος οὐ δύναμαι.’

Taking Issue With Homer: We Shouldn’t Approve of Achilles (Plato, Republic 390e-391a)

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ 2 Comments

Earlier today I posted some fragments from Plato the Comic poet. Here’s a bit from that other Plato, you know, the philosopher.

“We should not praise Achilles’ teacher Phoinix as speaking prudently when he advises him to take the gifts and defend the Achaeans, but not to give up on his rage without the gifts. Nor should we think it right that Achilles is so acquisitive or agree that he might take the gifts from Agamemnon, and then earn honor in turn for ransoming a corpse, when he isn’t willing to do so otherwise.”

οὐδὲ τὸν τοῦ ᾿Αχιλλέως παιδαγωγὸν Φοίνικα ἐπαινετέον ὡς μετρίως ἔλεγε συμβουλεύων αὐτῷ δῶρα μὲν λαβόντι ἐπαμύνειν τοῖς ᾿Αχαιοῖς, ἄνευ δὲ δώρων μὴ ἀπαλλάττεσθαι τῆς μήνιος. οὐδ’ αὐτὸν τὸν ᾿Αχιλλέα ἀξιώσομεν οὐδ’ ὁμολογήσομεν οὕτω φιλοχρήματον εἶναι, ὥστε παρὰ τοῦ ᾿Αγαμέμνονος δῶρα λαβεῖν, καὶ τιμὴν αὖ λαβόντα νεκροῦ ἀπολύειν, ἄλλως δὲ μὴ ‘θέλειν.

Life’s Like Craps, but it Needn’t Be Crap: Plutarch and Plato

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ Leave a comment

Plutarch, De Tranquilitate Animi 467b

“Plato likened life to a dice-game in which we need both to throw what is advantageous and to use the dice well after we’ve thrown them. And when we are subject to chance, if we take good advice, this is our task: though we cannot control the toss, we can accept the outcome luck gives us properly and allot to each event a place in which what is good for us helps the most and what was unplanned aggrieves the least.”

Κυβείᾳ γὰρ ὁ Πλάτων (Resp. 604c) τὸν βίον ἀπείκασεν, ἐν ᾧ καὶ βάλλειν δεῖ τὰ πρόσφορα, καὶ βαλόντα χρῆσθαι καλῶς τοῖς πεσοῦσι. τούτων δὲ τὸ μὲν βάλλειν οὐκ ἐφ’ ἡμῖν, τὸ δὲ προσηκόντως δέχεσθαι τὰ γινόμενα παρὰ τῆς τύχης καὶ νέμειν ἑκάστῳ τόπον, ἐν ᾧ καὶ τὸ οἰκεῖον ὠφελήσει μάλιστα καὶ τὸ ἀβούλητον ἥκιστα λυπήσει τοὺς ἐπιτυγχάνοντας, ἡμέτερον ἔργον ἐστίν, ἂν εὖ φρονῶμεν.

And here is the passage Plutarch is drawing on from the tenth book of the Republic (Plato, Republic 604c-d)

“The best way to deliberate about what has happened is just as we might in the fall of dice: to order our affairs in reference to how the dice have fallen where reason dictates the best place would be, and not to stumble forward like children shocked at the outcome wasting time with crying. Instead, we should always prepare our mind towards addressing what has happened as quickly as possible and to redress what has fallen and what ails, erasing lament [lit. threnody] with treatment*.”

Τῷ βουλεύεσθαι, ἦν δ’ ἐγώ, περὶ τὸ γεγονὸς καὶ ὥσπερ ἐν πτώσει κύβων πρὸς τὰ πεπτωκότα τίθεσθαι τὰ αὑτοῦ πράγματα, ὅπῃ ὁ λόγος αἱρεῖ βέλτιστ’ ἂν ἔχειν, ἀλλὰ μὴ προσπταίσαντας καθάπερ παῖδας ἐχομένους τοῦ πληγέντος ἐν τῷ βοᾶν διατρίβειν, ἀλλ’ ἀεὶ ἐθίζειν τὴν ψυχὴν ὅτι τάχιστα γίγνεσθαι πρὸς τὸ ἰᾶσθαί τε καὶ ἐπανορθοῦν τὸ πεσόν τε καὶ νοσῆσαν, ἰατρικῇ θρηνῳδίαν ἀφανίζοντα.

*ἰατρικῇ: lit. “art of medicine”; some translations use “therapy”.

Kephalos, The Wisest Athenian

~ Erik ~ Leave a comment

Much has been made of Socrates’ wisdom in knowing that he was not wise, but I suggest that his conversation partner, the aged Kephalos, may have been one too many for that wily corruptor of the youth. Notice how artfully he escapes what grows into a dialogue which may well have consumed the rest of his natural life:

“Your account is correct,” said Kephalos.

[Socrates speaking.] “This then is not the proper definition of justice, to speak the truth and give back what one has taken.”

“On the contrary, it is the proper definition, if Simonides is to be believed,” said Polemarchos, taking up the argument.

“Fair enough,” said Kephalos, “I’ll leave the whole argument to you two; I must take care of the sacrifices.”

“Am I, then, the inheritor of your affairs?” asked Polemarchos.

“Yes yes yes, certainly,” said Kephalos laughing, and directly he went out to the sacrifices.

—

ὀρθῶς, ἔφη, λέγεις.

οὐκ ἄρα οὗτος ὅρος ἐστὶν δικαιοσύνης, ἀληθῆ τε λέγειν καὶ ἃ ἂν λάβῃ τις ἀποδιδόναι.

πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὑπολαβὼν ὁ Πολέμαρχος, εἴπερ γέ τι χρὴ Σιμωνίδῃ πείθεσθαι.

καὶ μέντοι, ἔφη ὁ Κέφαλος, καὶ παραδίδωμι ὑμῖν τὸν λόγον: δεῖ γάρ με ἤδη τῶν ἱερῶν ἐπιμεληθῆναι.

οὐκοῦν, ἔφη, ἐγώ, ὁ Πολέμαρχος, τῶν γε σῶν κληρονόμος;

πάνυ γε, ἦ δ᾽ ὃς γελάσας, καὶ ἅμα ᾔει πρὸς τὰ ἱερά.

-Plato, Republic 1.331.d

A Different Plato Was Funny on Purpose: Platon the Comic Poet, Some Fragments

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ 5 Comments

The philosopher we know as Plato the son of Ariston–whom Diogenes claims was actually named Aristocles–was not the only Plato. No, there was another one, a little older, who was a comic poet in Athens. Our philosopher Plato wanted to be a poet too,

Here are some of the comic poet’s fragments:

Fragment 22

“Our laws are just like
Those fine spider webs
that the creature weaves upon the walls”

εἴξασιν ἡμῖν οἱ νόμοι
τούτοισι τοῖς λεπτοῖσιν ἀραχνίοισιν, ἃ
ἐν τοῖσι τοίχοις ἡ φάλαγξ ὑφαίνεται.

ἡ φάλαγξ: while this means “battle-order” or simply, phalanx in most of Greek, it can also mean spider. And not just any spider, a venomous spider.

Fragment 37

“So large they say that Mt Aetna is that the story is that the beetles who are born there are no smaller than men!”

ὡς μέγα μέντοι πάνυ τὴν Αἴτνην ὄρος εἶναί φασι τεκμαίρου,
ἔνθα τρέφεσθαι τὰς κανθαρίδας τῶν ἀνθρώπων λόγος ἐστὶν
οὐδὲν ἐλάττους.

Fragment 38

But some man scooped up the brains and gulped it down

ὁ δὲ τὸν ἐγκέφαλόν τις ἐξαύσας καταπίνει.

Fragment 77 (Storey)

“Why don’t you hang yourself and become a hero at Thebes?
Τί οὐκ ἀπήγξω, ἵνα Θήβησιν ἥρως γένῃ

Zenobius explains this one in his Common Proverbs (6.17): “Plato uses this line in his Menelaus. And the reason is that they say that in Thebes men who kill themselves receive no kind of honor. Aristotle says the same thing about Thebes, namely that they do not honor suicides there. Hence “so you may become a hero” is added ironically.”

ταύτης Πλάτων ἐν Μενέλεῳ μέμνηται. Φασὶ δὲ, ὅτι ἐν Θήβαις οἱ ἑαυτοὺς ἀναιροῦντες οὐδεμιᾶς τιμῆς μετεῖχον. Καὶ ᾿Αριστοτέλης δέ φησι περὶ Θηβαίων τὸ αὐτὸ τοῦτο, ὅτι τοὺς αὐτόχειρας ἑαυτῶν γινομένους οὐκ ἐτίμων. Τὸ οὖν, ῞Ινα ἥρως γένῃ, κατ’ εὐφημισμὸν εἴρηται.

A Consumerist Approach to Education Isn’t a NewThing: Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights 1.9.8-9

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ Leave a comment

“After our friend Taurus said these things about Pythagoras, he added, “Today, these people who turn to philosophy on whim and without washed feet [i.e. without preparation for the study], for them it isn’t enough that they are “completely without logic, without education, and without mathematical training”; no, they give the orders about how they should learn philosophy. One says “teach me this first”; another says “I’d like to learn this, but not that.” One is burning to start with Plato’s Symposium because of the appearance of Alcibiades; a different one wants the Phaedrus because of Lysias’ oration. By Jupiter! One even asks to read Plato not for the sake of improving his life, but only to decorate his speech and oratory—not so that it may be more appropriate, but in order to make it fancier.”

Haec eadem super Pythagora noster Taurus cum dixisset: “nunc autem” inquit “isti, qui repente pedibus inlotis ad philosophos devertunt, non est hoc satis, quod sunt omnino ἀθεώτεροι, ἄμουσοι, ἀγεωμέτρητοι, sed legem etiam dant, qua philosophari discant. 9 Alius ait “hoc me primum doce”, item alius “hoc volo” inquit “discere, istud nolo”; hic a symposio Platonis incipere gestit propter Alcibiadae comisationem, ille a Phaedro propter Lysiae orationem. 10 Est etiam,” inquit “pro Iuppiter! qui Platonem legere postulet non vitae ornandae, sed linguae orationisque comendae gratia, nec ut modestior fiat, sed ut lepidior.”

Plato Was a Bad Poet, so He Turned to Philosophy: Aelian, Varia Historia 2.30

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ Leave a comment

“Plato, the son of Ariston, at first pursued poetry and used to write heroic verse. But he soon burned it all because he despised it, since he reckoned that his poetry was far inferior when compared to Homer’s. He then tried tragedy and even completed a tetralogy, and he was about to enter the competition, even to the point of giving the verses to actors. But right before the Dionysia, he went and heard Socrates; and once he was seized by that Siren, he not only withdrew from the competition, but he also gave up the writing of tragedy for good to immerse himself in philosophy.”

Πλάτων ὁ ᾿Αρίστωνος τὰ πρῶτα ἐπὶ ποιητικὴν ὥρμησε, καὶ ἡρωϊκὰ ἔγραφε μέτρα• εἶτα αὐτὰ κατέπρησεν ὑπεριδὼν αὐτῶν, ἐπεὶ τοῖς ῾Ομήρου αὐτὰ ἀντικρίνων ἑώρα κατὰ πολὺ ἡττώμενα. ἐπέθετο οὖν τραγῳδίᾳ, καὶ δὴ καὶ τετραλογίαν εἰργάσατο, καὶ ἔμελλεν ἀγωνιεῖσθαι, δοὺς ἤδη τοῖς ὑποκριταῖς τὰ ποιήματα. πρὸ τῶν Διονυσίων δὲ παρελθὼν ἤκουσε Σωκράτους, καὶ ἅπαξ αἱρεθεὶς ὑπὸ τῆς ἐκείνου σειρῆνος, τοῦ ἀγωνίσματος οὐ μόνον ἀπέστη τότε, ἀλλὰ καὶ τελέως τὸ γράφειν τραγῳδίαν ἀπέρριψε, καὶ ἀπεδύσατο ἐπὶ φιλοσοφίαν.

Folk Etymologies for Artemis from Plato

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ 1 Comment
Angry goddess with projectile weapon.
Angry goddess with projectile weapon.

Like many ancient divine names, the etymology of Artemis is unclear (whether it is proto-Greek or non-Greek, etc.). When it comes to etymology in general, I have a fondness for ancient folk etymologies because, even if they make dubious claims, they do tell us something about what the Greeks thought of the deity and how they were approaching their own language. Wikipedia, as one might expect, cites many of the different etymologies for Artemis, but skimps on some of the depth and play available in folk etymology.

The most illustrative example is from Plato (Cratylus 406b) where Socrates proposes multiple spurious origins for the name but then concludes they might all work in concert.

“Artemis seems to be named due to her safe/healthy (artemés) and orderly character, and due to her love of maidenhood. Perhaps, instead, the one who named her named her because she is knowledgeable about virtue ([aretê + manthanô “to learn, know”?]) or, also possibly, because she hates the plowing of a man into a women ([aroton +misê, “to hate”]). Or, the man who gave this name to the goddess named her for all of these reasons.”

“῎Αρτεμις” δὲ <διὰ> τὸ ἀρτεμὲς φαίνεται καὶ τὸ κόσμιον, διὰ τὴν τῆς παρθενίας ἐπιθυμίαν• ἴσως δὲ ἀρετῆς ἵστορα τὴν θεὸν ἐκάλεσεν ὁ καλέσας, τάχα δ’ ἂν καὶ ὡς τὸν ἄροτον μισησάσης τὸν ἀνδρὸς ἐν γυναικί• ἢ διὰ τούτων τι ἢ διὰ πάντα ταῦτα τὸ ὄνομα τοῦτο ὁ τιθέμενος ἔθετο τῇ θεῷ.

I like this passage because it indicates—even if indirectly—the distance between what modern historical linguists do in isolating viable etymologies and how origins of words are engaged with culture and narrative in living traditions. Plato’s characters take what they know about Artemis (she protects virgins, kills some people in horrendous fashion etc.) and what they think they know about language to make reasonable (if historical impossible) proposals. And, more importantly, Socrates, here at least, is reluctant to be reductive: words can mean multiple things at the same time and in this may share their semantic origins with non-cognate roots.

The Doric spelling of the goddess’ name was ῎Αρταμις (Artamis) which is part of what likely led the LSJ to list ἄρταμος (artamos, “butcher”) as a more likely etymological connection than Plato’s indicated ἀρτεμής (artamês, “safe”). But, let’s be honest, everyone likes to argue with Plato (Aristotle especially); and we know that the LSJ is not a result of perfect judgment and absolute science.

Plato Nicknames Aristotle; Aristotle Starts his Own School (Aelian, 4.9)

~ sententiaeantiquae ~ Leave a comment

{An earlier anecdote from Aelian explains part of the fallout between the two philosophers).

“Plato used to call Aristotle Pôlos [the Foal]. What did he wish with that name? Everyone knows that a foal, when it has had its fill of baby’s milk, kicks its mother. Thus Plato was signaling a certain ingratitude on Aristotle’ part. Indeed, Aristotle received the greatest seeds of Philosophy from Plato and then, though he was filled to the brim with the best ideas, he broke with Plato rebelliously. He founded his own house, took his friends on Plato’s walk, and set himself up to be Plato’s rival.”

῾Ο Πλάτων τὸν ᾿Αριστοτέλη ἐκάλει Πῶλον. τί δὲ ἐβούλετο αὐτῷ τὸ ὄνομα ἐκεῖνο; δηλονότι ὡμολόγηται τὸν πῶλον, ὅταν κορεσθῇ τοῦ μητρῴου γάλακτος, λακτίζειν τὴν μητέρα. ᾐνίττετο οὖν καὶ ὁ Πλάτων ἀχαριστίαν τινὰ τοῦ ᾿Αριστοτέλους. καὶ γὰρ ἐκεῖνος μέγιστα ἐς φιλοσοφίαν παρὰ Πλάτωνος λαβὼν σπέρματα καὶ ἐφόδια, εἶτα ὑποπλησθεὶς τῶν ἀρίστων καὶ ἀφηνιάσας, ἀντῳκοδόμησεν αὐτῷ διατριβὴν καὶ ἀντιπαρεξήγαγεν ἐν τῷ περιπάτῳ ἑταίρους ἔχων καὶ ὁμιλητάς, καὶ ἐγλίχετο ἀντίπαλος εἶναι Πλάτωνι.