Master of Pleasure and Master of Pain: Three Anecdotes about Sophokles and Euripides

These are from the Gnomologium Vaticanum

404

“When Menander was asked what the difference was between Sophokles and Euripides he said that Sophokles makes people feel pleasure while Euripides makes his audience feel anger.”

Μένανδρος ἐρωτηθεὶς τί διαφέρουσιν ἀλλήλων Σοφοκλῆς καὶ Εὐριπίδης εἶπεν ὅτι Σοφοκλῆς μὲν τέρπεσθαι ποιεῖ τοὺς ἀνθρώπους, Εὐριπίδης δὲ σκυθρωπάζειν τοὺς ἀκροατάς.

 

518

“Sophokles the tragic poet, after he heard that Euripides died in Macedonia, said “The whetstone of my poems is gone.”

Σοφοκλῆς, ὁ τῶν τραγῳδιῶν ποιητής, ἀκούσας Εὐριπίδην ἐν Μακεδονίᾳ τεθνηκέναι εἶπεν· „ἀπώλετο ἡ τῶν ἐμῶν ποιημάτων ἀκόνη.”

 

519

“When he was asked why he made people with noble characters and Euripides made those of base ones, Sophokles answered “Because I make people how they should be and he makes people as they are.”

῾Ο αὐτὸς ἐρωτηθεὶς διὰ τί αὐτὸς μὲν ποιεῖ τὰ ἤθη τῶν ἀνθρώπων χρηστά, Εὐριπίδης δὲ φαῦλα „ὅτι” ἔφη „ἐγὼ μέν, οἵους ἔδει εἶναι, τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ποιῶ, ἐκεῖνος δέ, ὁποῖοί εἰσιν.”

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Peleus’ Knife, A Proverb

Appendix Prov.

“Peleus’ knife” The knife was a prize of prudence which was given to Peleus—it was made by Hephaistos.”

Πηλέως μάχαιρα: σωφροσύνης γέρας ἡ μάχαιρα τῷ Πηλεῖ δέδοται, ῾Ηφαιστότευκτος οὖσα.

“Peleus’ knife”: this is a proverb. Aristophanes also records this: “he thinks more of himself than Peleus did with the knife”. It seems that this thing which Peleus took was a Hephaistos-made gift of prudence.”

Πηλέως μάχαιρα: παροιμία: ταύτην ἀναγράφει καὶ Ἀριστοφάνης οὕτως: μέγα φρονεῖ μᾶλλον ἢ Πηλεὺς ἐπὶ τῇ μαχαίρᾳ. ἣ ἐδόκει σωφροσύνης γέρας ἡφαιστότευκτος, ἣν εἰλήφει μάχαιραν ὁ Πηλεύς.

Photios

“Peleus’ knife. Aristophanes also records this: “he thinks more of himself than Peleus did with the knife”. It seems that this thing which Peleus took was a Hephaistos-made gift of prudence.

This proverb is used for rare and extremely honored possessions. For they say that Peleus received a sword from the gods because of his surplus of prudence. It was made by Hephaistos.”

Πηλέως μάχαιρα: παροιμία· ταύτην ἀναγράφει καὶ ᾿Αριστοφάνης οὕτως· μέγα φρονεῖ μᾶλλον ἢ Πηλεὺς ἐν τηῖ μαχαίρηι· ἐδόκει σωφροσύνης γέρας ῾Ηφαιστότευκτος ἣν εἰλήφει μάχαιραν ὁ Πηλεύς· λαμβάνεται δὲ ἐπὶ τῶν σπανίων καὶ τιμιωτάτων κτημάτων· διὰ γὰρ σωφροσύνης ὑπερβολὴν παρὰ θεῶν λαβεῖν φασὶ τὸν Πηλέα ξίφος, ῾Ηφαίστου κατασκευάσαντος.

A bronze age sword

Some Miraculous Misogyny From the Ancient World

The following passages are from the Paradoxographus Vaticanus (Admiranda), one of a selection of ancient paradoxographical collections which are not widely available in translation. I have been working on completing full rough translations of the paradoxa this summer. The Florentinus  and Palatinus manuscripts are now translated as are the Historiae Mirabiles of Apollonios Paradoxographus.

Of the collections, the Vaticanus is the most interesting and strange. Here are a few sections that jumped out while I translated them today.

15 “In a certain part of the region before Olympos there are trees similar to a tender-leafed willow which people say were once virgins. They changed into these trees when they were fleeing Boreas who was lusting after them. Even to this day, if someone touches the leaves, people claim that the wind gets enraged and immediately blows with a fury and barely stops before the third day”

῎Εν τινι τῶν κατὰ τὸν ῎Ολυμπον δένδρα ἐστὶν ἰτέᾳ λεπτοφύλλῳ ἐοικότα, ἃ παρθένους γεγενῆσθαι ἱστοροῦσι· εἰς <δὲ> δένδρα ταύτας ἀμειφθῆναι τὸν Βορρᾶν φευγούσας ἐρῶντα. Καὶ νῦν ἔτι, εἴ τις θίγοι τῶν φυλλῶν, χολοῦσθαι τὸν ἄνεμον λέγουσι καὶ σφοδρὸν αὐτίκα πνεῖν καὶ μόλις διὰ τρίτης παύεσθαι.

16 “In the middle of Thrace there is a river which reveals women who have been corrupted through adultery. When their husbands have them drink from the water they also say ‘If you were not corrupted by that water, may you have a son; but if you were, have a daughter’ “

Μέστος ποταμὸς ἐν Θρᾴκῃ τὰς μοιχευομένας ἐξελέγχει, τῶν ἀνδρῶν ποτιζόντων αὐτὰς ἀπὸ τοῦ ὕδατος τούτου καὶ λεγόντων· «εἰ μὲν οὐκ ἐμοιχεύθης, ἄρρεν τέκοις, εἰ δ’ οὖν, θῆλυ.»

17 “And among the Germanoi, the Rhênos tests this: for if a child is immersed in it, if it was the product of adultery, it dies, if not, it lives.”

 Καὶ παρὰ Γερμανοῖς ὁ ῾Ρῆνος ἐλέγχει· ἐμβληθὲν γὰρ τὸ παιδίον εἰ μὲν μοιχευθείσης ἐστί, θνῄσκει, εἰ δ’ οὐ, ζῇ.

24 “The Keltoi, whenever there is scarcity or a famine, punish their women as if they are to blame for the evils.”

Οἱ Κελτοί, ὅταν ἢ ἀφορία ἢ λοιμὸς γένηται, τὰς γυναῖκας αὐτῶν κολάζουσιν ὡς αἰτίας τῶν κακῶν.

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Splendor Solis “(Germany, 1582), British Library, London.

Or

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Out of the Smoke, Into the Fire: Some More Greek Proverbs

As of today I take over as chair of my department. Here are some proverbs for life changes and mistakes.

Diogenianus, 8.45

“When I fled the smoke, I fell into the fire”:  [this proverb is applied] to those who flee rather minor troubles only to fall upon greater ones.

Τὸν καπνὸν φεύγων, εἰς τὸ πῦρ ἐνέπεσον: ἐπὶ τῶν τὰ μικρὰ τῶν δεινῶν φευγόντων, καὶ εἰς μείζονα δεινὰ ἐμπιπτόντων.

 

Arsenius 4.23f

“It is strange that one who pursues honors avoids the hard work honors come from”

῎Ατοπόν ἐστι διώκοντα τὰς τιμὰς φεύγειν τοὺς πόνους, δι’ ὧν αἱ τιμαί.

 

Michael Apostolios, 11.15

“You ate some lotus”: [this proverb is applied to those] who are forgetful of things in the household and are slow in matters of hospitality. It is based on the lotus which imbues one who eats it with forgetfulness.”

Λωτοῦ ἔφαγες: ἐπὶ τῶν σχόντων λήθην τῶν οἴκοι, καὶ βραδυνόντων ἐπὶ ξένης. ἔστι δὲ πόα τὸ λωτὸν, λήθην ἐμποιοῦν τῷ φαγόντι.

 

Arsenius 3.19a

“The man who flees will also fight again”: [this proverb is applied] to those who face a doubtful victory.

᾿Ανὴρ ὁ φεύγων καὶ πάλιν μαχήσεται: ἐπὶ τῶν ἑτεραλκεῖ νίκῃ χρωμένων ταχθείη.

 

Michael Apostolios 1.26

“Agamemnon’s sacrifice”: [a proverb] applied to the difficult to persuade and the stubborn. For when Agamemnon was making a sacrifice, the bull was scarcely caught after it fled.” Or, it is because Agamemnon wanted to sacrifice his daughter. And she fled.”

᾿Αγαμέμνονος θυσία: ἐπὶ τῶν δυσπειθῶν καὶ σκληρῶν. θύοντος γὰρ ᾿Αγαμέμνονος ὁ βοῦς φυγὼν μόλις ἐλήφθη. ῍Η ὅτι τὴν ἑαυτοῦ ἐβούλετο ᾿Αγαμέμνων θυσιάσαι θυγατέρα· ἣ δ’ ἔφυγε.

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Illuminated Manuscript – The Hague, KB, 76 F 13, f. 12v, XIV cent., France

Sex Drugs and Magnetic Wood: Another Wondrous Wednesday

Apollonios Paradoxographus, Historiae Mirabiles 13-19

13“…in the mythical [legend] for those places, in Halicarnassos, when a sacrifice is completed to Zeus Askraios a heard of goats are driven before the temple and stopped [there]; while the prayers are being completed a single goat which is led forward by no one steps ahead and approaches the altar and the priest, after he takes her, sacrifices as a good omen.”

13     <…..> ἐν τῷ κατὰ τόπους μυθικῷ, ἐν ῾Αλικαρνασσῷ θυσίας τινὸς τῷ Διὶ τῷ ᾿Ασκραίῳ συντελουμένης ἀγέλην αἰγῶν ἄγεσθαι πρὸ τοῦ ἱεροῦ καὶ ἵστασθαι· τῶν δὲ κατευχῶνσυντελεσθεισῶν προβαίνειν μίαν αἶγα ὑπὸ μηδενὸς ἀγομένην καὶ προσέρχεσθαι τῷ βωμῷ, τὸν δὲ ἱερέα λαβόμενον αὐτῆς καλλιερεῖν.

 

14“Phylarkhos writes in the eighth book of his Histories that there is a spring of water  near the Gulf of Arabia from which if anyone ever anoints their feet what transpires miraculously is that their genitals extend pretty far. And for some they do not contract completely, and for others they are put back to shape with great suffering and medical attention.”

14 Φύλαρχος ἐν τῇ η′ τῶν ἱστοριῶν [καὶ] κατὰ τὸν ᾿Αράβιόν φησι κόλπον πηγὴν εἶναι ὕδατος, ἐξ οὗ εἴ τις τοὺς πόδας χρίσειεν, συμβαίνειν εὐθέως ἐντείνεσθαι ἐπὶ πολὺ τὸ αἰδοῖον, καί τινων μὲν μηδ’ ὅλως συστέλλεσθαι, τινῶν δὲ μετὰ μεγάλης κακοπαθείας καὶ θεραπείας ἀποκαθίστασθαι.

15 “Skumnos of Khios says that the Brittanic island is forty-thousand stades in length, and plants grow there without a kernel—for example olive trees do not have seeds nor does the grape vine have stones nor anything similar to this.”

15 Σκύμνος δὲ ὁ Χῖος τὴν Βρεττανικὴν νῆσον λέγει σταδίων εἶναι τετρακισμυρίων τὸ περίμετρον, γίγνεσθαι δὲ ἐν αὐτῇ τὰ γεννήματα ἀπύρηνα, οἷον τὰς ἐλαίας πυρῆνας μὴ ἔχειν μηδὲ βότρυς γίγαρτον μηδὲ τὰ ἐμφερῆ τούτοις.

16“Theophrastos, in his work On Plants [says] that the root of sallow, which doctors use, should someone roast it with meat, the many individual pieces becomes one so that it is no longer possible to take it out of the vessel.”

16 Θεόφραστος δ’ ἐν τῇ περὶ [τῶν] φυτῶν πραγματείᾳ τὴν <τῆς> θαψίας ῥίζαν, ᾗ οἱ ἰατροὶ χρῶνται, ἐάν τις σὺν κρέασιν ἑψήσῃ, τὰ πολλὰ ἓν γίγνεσθαι, ὥστε ἐκ τοῦ ἀγγείου μηκέτι δύνασθαι ἐξαιρεθῆναι.

17 “Ktêsias says that there is wood among the Indians which is called parêbos [lit. “beyond its prime”]. This attracts everything which is brought near it to it—like gold, silver, tin, bronze and all the other metals. “ it attracts the sparrows which fly near too” [quotation]. If the wood/material is larger, it [also attracts] goats and sheep and animals of similar types.”

17 Κτησίας πα ρ’ ᾿Ινδοῖς ξύλον γίνεσθαί φησιν, ὃ καλεῖται πάρηβον. τοῦτο ἐφ’ ἑαυτὸ ἕλκει πᾶν τὸ προσκομισθὲν αὐτῷ, οἷον χρυσόν, ἄργυρον, κασσίτερον, χαλκὸν καὶ τἆλλα μεταλλικὰ πάντα. “ἕλκει δὲ καὶ τὰ σύνεγγυς ἱπτάμενα στρουθία.”ἐὰν δὲ μεῖζον ᾖ τὸ ξύλον, καὶ αἶγας καὶ πρόβατα καὶ τὰ ὁμήλικα ζῷα.

18 “Phularkhos in book 20 of the Histories says that there is a white root imported from India which when [people] cut it and smear it over their feet with water, those who are smeared with it experience forgetfulness of sex and become similar to Eunuchs. For this reason still some apply it before they are fully adults and are not aroused for the rest of their life.”

18 Φύλαρχος ἐν <τῇ> κ′ τῶν ἱστοριῶν ἐκ τῆς ᾿Ινδικῆς φησιν ἐνεχθῆναι λευκὴν ῥίζαν, ἣν κόπτοντας μεθ’ ὕδατος καταπλάττειν τοὺς πόδας, τοὺς δὲ καταπλασθέντας ἄνδρας τῆς συνουσίας λήθην ἴσχειν καὶ γίγνεσθαι ὁμοίους εὐνούχοις. διὸ καὶ ἔτι ἀνήβων ὄντων καταχρίουσι, καὶ μέχρι θανάτου οὐκ ἐπαίρουσιν.

19 “Herakleides the critic in his book about the cities in Greece writes that on the Pêlion mountain a thistle plant grows which bears fruit. If someone grinds up the fruit with olive and water and anoints his own body or another during the winter, he does not feel cold.”

19 ῾Ηρακλείδης δὲ ὁ κριτικὸς ἐν τῷ περὶ τῶν ἐν τῇ ῾Ελλάδι πόλεων κατὰ τὸ Πήλιον ὄρος φύεσθαί φησιν ἄκανθαν καρποφόρον, ἧς τὸν καρπὸν ἐάν τις τρίψας μετ’ ἐλαίου καὶ ὕδατος χρίσῃ τὸ αὑτοῦ ἢ ἄλλου σῶμα χειμῶνος ὄντος, οὐκ ἐπαισθήσεται τοῦ ψύχους.

20 “Ktêsias, in his tenth book of Persian Affairs says that there a some camels born in the Kaspian land which have hair which is soft like Milesian wool. Priests and other prominent individuals wear vestments from these animals.”

20 Κτησίας δέ, ἐν τῇ δεκάτῃ Περσικῶν, καμήλους τινὰς ἐν τῇ <Κασπίᾳ> χώρᾳ γίγνεσθαι, ἃς ἔχειν τρίχας πρὸς Μιλήσια ἔρια τῇ μαλακότητι· ἐκ δὲ τούτων τοὺς ἱερεῖς καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους δυνάστας τὰς ἐσθῆτας φέρειν.

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Koninklijke Bibliotheek, KB, 76 E 4, Folio 9r. Camel

 

Happy Monday! Some Proverbs for Bad Things

Arsenius 3.64c

“All these evils are the responsibility of nature.”

ἅπαντα ταῦτ’ ἐπίθετα τῇ φύσει κακά

 

Appendix Proverbium 2.22

“You’re burning incense over bullshit”: a proverb for those who are trying to change evil things”

Εἰς κόπρον θυμιᾷς: ἐπὶ τῶν τὰ κακὰ μεταβαλεῖν ἐπιχειρούντων.

 

Arsenius 7.7a

“People suffer less because of their enemies than their friends. For they guard against their enemies because they fear them while they remain open to their friends. They too are slippery and likely to conspire.”

᾿Ελάσσω κακὰ πάσχουσιν οἱ ἄνθρωποι ὑπὸ τῶν ἐχθρῶν ἢ ὑπὸ τῶν φίλων· τοὺς μὲν γὰρ ἐχθροὺς δεδιότες φυλάσσονται, τοῖς δὲ φίλοις ἀνεῳγμένοι εἰσί. καὶ γίνονται σφαλεροὶ καὶ εὐεπιβούλευτοι

 

Zenobius 4.43

“An Iliad of Evils”: this proverb is uses for great evils. This is because there were myriad evils in Ilium”

᾿Ιλιὰς κακῶν: ἀπὸ παροιμίας τοῦτο ἐλέγετο ἐπὶ τῶν μεγάλων κακῶν· παρόσον ἐν ᾿Ιλίῳ μυρία κακὰ συνέβη γενέσθαι.

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Mouth of Hell: MS Tanner 184

Four Proverbs for Fools

Go here for more information about Ancient Greek collections of proverbs.

Arsenius, 5.29b

“A fool laughs even when nothing is funny.”

Γελᾷ δ’ ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ.

 

Michael Apostolios 3.87

“You are considering ancient history.” A proverb applied to fools and simpletons.

᾿Αρχαϊκὰ φρονεῖς: ἐπὶ τῶν μωρῶν καὶ εὐηθῶν.

 

Michaelos Apostolios 11.92

“A fool can’t keep quiet”

Μωρὸς σιωπᾷν οὐ δύναται.

11.93

“He will blame instead of imitate”: a proverb applied to the uneducable and because it is easier to criticize than emulate.”

Μωμήσεται μᾶλλον ἢ μιμήσεται: ἐπὶ τῶν ἀπαιδεύτων, καὶ ὅτι τὸ ψέγειν τοῦ μιμεῖσθαι ῥᾳότερον.

 

Roman comments on fools.

Also: μωρολογία: properly, “stupid-talking” or “the talk of fools”. But why not: “the science of stupidity”?

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Miniature from the Bute Psalter; c. 1270-80

A bonus anecdote for this evening;

Stobaeus 3.34.15

“Solon, after he was asked by Periander over drink—when the former happened to be quiet—whether he was silent because of a loss of words or foolishness, said “No fool could ever be quiet at a drinking party.”

Σόλων ἐρωτηθεὶς ὑπὸ Περιάνδρου παρὰ πότον, ἐπεὶ σιωπῶν ἐτύγχανε, πότερα διὰ λόγων σπάνιν ἢ διὰ μωρίαν σιωπᾷ, ‘ἀλλ’ οὐδεὶς ἄν’ εἶπε ‘μωρὸς σιωπᾶν ἐν συμποσίῳ δύναιτο’.

Master of Pleasure and Master of Pain: Three Anecdotes about Sophokles and Euripides

These are from the Gnomologium Vaticanum

404

“When Menander was asked what the difference was between Sophokles and Euripides he said that Sophokles makes people feel pleasure while Euripides makes his audience feel anger.”

Μένανδρος ἐρωτηθεὶς τί διαφέρουσιν ἀλλήλων Σοφοκλῆς καὶ Εὐριπίδης εἶπεν ὅτι Σοφοκλῆς μὲν τέρπεσθαι ποιεῖ τοὺς ἀνθρώπους, Εὐριπίδης δὲ σκυθρωπάζειν τοὺς ἀκροατάς.

 

518

“Sophokles the tragic poet, after he heard that Euripides died in Macedonia, said “The whetstone of my poems is gone.”

Σοφοκλῆς, ὁ τῶν τραγῳδιῶν ποιητής, ἀκούσας Εὐριπίδην ἐν Μακεδονίᾳ τεθνηκέναι εἶπεν· „ἀπώλετο ἡ τῶν ἐμῶν ποιημάτων ἀκόνη.”

 

519

“When he was asked why he made people with noble characters and Euripides made those of base ones, Sophokles answered “Because I make people how they should be and he makes people as they are.”

῾Ο αὐτὸς ἐρωτηθεὶς διὰ τί αὐτὸς μὲν ποιεῖ τὰ ἤθη τῶν ἀνθρώπων χρηστά, Εὐριπίδης δὲ φαῦλα „ὅτι” ἔφη „ἐγὼ μέν, οἵους ἔδει εἶναι, τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ποιῶ, ἐκεῖνος δέ, ὁποῖοί εἰσιν.”

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