In one topics for “Table-Talk”, Plutarch suggests the effects of love on a poet as a starting point…Of course, if you want debates about Love, the Symposia of Plato and Xenophon are good inspirations too…
Plutarch: “Table-Talk” Moralia 622 Why Do We Say that Eros Teaches a Poet?
“The question “how it can be said truthful that “Love teaches the poet” even though he was songless before, was considered at Sossius’ house after some Sapphic verses were performed. Philoxenos claims that the Kyklops “cured love with well-voiced songs.”
Love is said to be clever at every kind of audacity and at furnishing ingenuity, just as Plato calls love “speedy” and “prepared for everything”. Indeed, love makes a quiet man talkative and the withdrawn man solicitous; it makes the carefree and easygoing person serious and sedulous. And what is especially wondrous, a cheap and miserly man, after he falls in love, becomes soft, compliant, and persuadable just as iron in fire. Thus what seems like a joke is not completely absurd in the proverb “a lover’s purse is locked by an onion leaf”.
It has also been said that being in love is like being drunk. For it makes people hot, happy, and troubled–after they come into this state, they fall into speech that sounds like songs or verse. People claim Aeschylus wrote his tragedies while drinking, even completely drunk. My grandfather Lamprias was himself most innovative and insightful when he was drinking. He was in the habit of saying that just as with incense, he too was activated by warmth.
In addition, people see the ones they want most sweetly—and are no less moved to praise them than to see them. In praise, love, voluble in everything, is the most effusive. When people are in love they want to persuade everyone how beautiful and good are the ones they love, because they believe it themselves.”
Why are the Orphic Hymns important to understanding Ancient Greek Religion? These hymns offer us variations of the Pan-Hellenic tradition. We can see the way ancient Greeks formed a Pan-Hellenic identity over the expanse 8th century and beyond, because these variations are recorded. They are local traditions. I say local because they are not Pan-Hellenic and therefore must be important to a smaller group, a more localized group, of Greeks during their time.
Whereas the Pan-Hellenic tradition strives to create a cosmos (Versnel 2015) that is acceptable to all poleis in general while not entirely adhering to one specifically (See Nagy 1990), the Orphic hymns represent those ideas that were not acceptable to the poleis influence. I am still studying what the nature of this editing process was and hope to discover through this venture very early Greek religious thought. In the meantime, below are a few hymns which offer variations in the myth of Demeter, Persephone, Hades, and the establishment of the Mysteries at Eleusis. One might note that Zeus, or some idea of Zeus-esque justice, is found in all the hymns but is never the subject of the passage.
If any conclusion can be made concerning the appearance of the most Pan-Hellenic god in the localized variations of these myths it is that, to the author, Zeus’s role was not as important as those of the others. Some these hymns, such as Hymn 18, bring different questions to light: what does one want to summon Hades for? Who were the people honoring Hades and why?
To Pluton, 18
Oh Fearless One, who dwells in the house under the earth,
in Tartarian and deeply shaded dark fields,
Chthonian Zeus, Staff Bearer, take this holy sacrifice eagerly.
Pluto, you who holds under the earth the keys to everything
you who make mortal men rich with fruits of the years passing.
You who obtained the Earth, Queen of Everything, the dwelling of the gods, the mighty foundation of mortal men, as his third part.
You who set his throne under the darkly shaped earth, Far-Reaching,
Untiring, Breathless (dead), unpredictable Hades
and darkly veil Acheron, you who dwells at the roots of the earth.
You who rules mortals because of death, oh Eubulus Polydectes,
who made a wife of the child of sacred Demeter
and dragged her away from the meadow through the sea
under Atthis in a cave with four- horses
at the deme of Eleusis, where the gates of Hades are.
You alone shown as judge and made visible of work unseen,
Possessing, Almighty One, Most Hallowed, brilliantly honored,
august heavenly initiator be glad in your majesty.
Graciously I call you up to come and take pleasure in your initiates.
Hymn 29 is one inspired by the return of spring. It too offers variations on the representation of Persephone. Here she is the most important goddess of the Pantheon and highly honored in contrast to her father Zeus. She is the Εὐμενίδων γενέτειρα Mother of the Furies and should be feared, yet she is the φαεσφόρε the Light -Bringer and is hoped for by all mortal men. To the author she is the giver of life and bringer of death.
Hymn of Persephone, 29
Persephone, Daughter of Great Zeus, come! Blessed one,
Singly-Born Goddess, receive these things which are pleasing to you,
Wife of Much Honored Pluto, Wise One, Giver of Life,
you who dwells beyond the gates of Hades under the depths of the Earth,
Praxidike, With lovely braids, Holy Child of Demeter
Mother of the Furies, Our Lady Underground,
The daughter whom Zeus created in secret tryst
Mother of Loud Thundering many-formed Eubulus,
playmate of the seasons, Light-Bringer, Brilliant in form,
you are Holy, Almighty, the daughter who brings fruits to bursting,
you are bright, horned, only you are longed for by men,
Vernal One, who takes pleasure in meadowy breezes,
reveal the holy form with green shoots that you have yet to sprout,
Ravished after being given in autumnal marriage,
Persephone alone is life and death to much-toiling mortals,
you nourish (them) forever, and you kill (them) all.
Hear this, Great Goddess, and send again the fruits over the earth
causing them to flourish with peace and a soothing hand of heath
that one may live life richly shiny as with oil unto old age
then to your place go down, my Lady, and the place of powerful Pluto.
The third hymn offered here is Hymn 41 to the “Mother Besought by Prayers”. This hymn follows the Pan-Hellenic tradition by pointing to Eleusis as the epicenter of the myth and even describes the far wandering and grieving Demeter. It also deviates, however, when Demeter herself walks down into Hades taking as a guide a man to whom she gifted god-hood.
Orphic Hymn 41
The Mother Besought by Prayers, fragrant incense.
Queen besought by prayers, Goddess, Mother of Many names
from the undying gods and mortal humans,
When you began the great wandering seeking in grief,
you suddenly stopped the hunger and in the hollows of Eleusis
you walked into Hades toward illustrious Persephone
the holy child of Dysaulos taking as a guide,
a guide to the hallowed bed of holy Chthonian Zeus,
she who made Eubulus a god from his mortal condition.
But, Goddess, I beg you, Queen to whom many prayers are offered,
Graciously come near your holy servant.
Christopher Makauskas is a graduate student in the Classics Department at Brandeis University with a BA in History from the University of North Florida. His research focuses on ancient Greek religion, Pan-Hellenism, and the Archaic Period. He can be found on twitter @Chrmakau
“[He claims] that Menelaos fought after most of the Greeks did, and used his brother to do everything, even though he received eagerness and good treatment from Agamemnon he was still envious of him especially of the things he was doing for them. See, he wanted to rule himself, but wasn’t worthy of it.
So, his story is that Menelaos would have permitted Orestes to be stoned by the the Argives when he was in danger in Argos, even though he was famous in Athens and throughout Greece after he avenged his father’s murder. But Orestes attacked them with his Phocian allies and forced them to retreat. He regained his father’s power even though Menelaos was unwilling to help.
He adds that Menelaos wore a somewhat childish long hairstyle which, since it was the Spartan style at the time, the Achaeans overlooked in him. (They also resisted mocking the people from Euboia whose hair was extremely ridiculous). By this account, Menealos was the most natural speaker of all and his words were extremely concise but mixed thoroughly with charm.”
I’m going to put short fragments of Alcaeus, Sappho, and Anacreon to twisted use: linking them into a single narrative which rehearses a common theme of Archaic lyric: the poet driven mad by unrequited love for a youth.
Alcaeus forthrightly states the case:
Alcaeus Fr. 33
A whirlwind totally ripped away their senses.
πάμπαν δὲ τύφως ἔκ ϝ᾿ ἔλετο φρένας
That “whirlwind,” love, disturbs the equanimity of Sappho and Anacreon alike, turning the mind of each against itself:
Sappho Fr.51
I don’t know what to make of this;
I’m of two minds.
οὐκ οἶδ’ ὄττι θέω· δίχα μοι τὰ νοήμματα
Anacreon Fr. 428 (Campbell)
I’m in love again and not in love.
I’m raving mad and not raving mad. .
“The building of temples relies on symmetry and architects need to most carefully understand the reason for this. It comes from proposition, which was called “analogy” in Greek. Proportion derives from fixed segments of the parts of the building and the whole—and the balance of symmetry is achieved through this. For no building can have an order in its design without symmetry and proportion, unless it has something like the precise design of a well-figured human body. For nature has so composed the human body that the face from the chin to the top of the brow and the roots of the hair is one tenth of the whole and the palm of the hand from the wrist to the end of the middle finger is the same.
The head from the chin to the top is one eighth and the top of the chest where it meets the neck to the hair’s roots is a sixth. From the middle of the chest to the crown is one quarter of the whole. The third part of the length of the face extends from the bottom of the chin to the base of the nostrils. The nose from the nostril base to the space between the brows is the same. From that line to hair forms the forehead, a third part. The foot comprises a sixth of the body’s height and the chest is a quarter. The other limbs all have appropriate measures too. And ancient painters earned great praise by observing all these measures.
In the same way, the limbs of temples should have proportions of their various parts responding appropriately to the general size of the whole construction. Consider that the navel is the natural center of the body. For, if a person should lie on the ground with hands and feet spread wide and a circle has the navel as the center, fingers and toes will touch the line of the circumference. In addition, a square can be traced within the figure in the same way. For, if we take the measure from the sole to the top of the head and compare to measure to the distance from one hand to another, the lengths will be found equal, just like foundations squared with a rule. For this reason, if nature designed the body so that the parts correspond in their dimension to the whole design, then ancient people seem to have decided with good reason that they should keep in their works the exact proportions of the separate components to the design of the whole. Therefore, they have handed down orders in all of their works, especially in temples to the gods, the kinds of accomplishments whose excellence and weakness persist for generations.”
1Aedium compositio constat ex symmetria, cuius rationem diligentissime architecti tenere debent. Ea autem paritur a proportione, quae graece analogia dicitur. Proportio est ratae partis membrorum in omni opere totiusque commodulatio, ex qua ratio efficitur symmetriarum. Namque non potest aedis ulla sine symmetria atque proportione rationem habere compositionis, nisi uti ad hominis bene figurati membrorum habuerit exactam rationem. 2Corpus enim hominis ita natura composuit, uti os capitis a mento ad frontem summam et radices imas capilli esset decimae partis, item manus palma ab articulo ad extremum medium digitum tantundem, caput a mento ad summum verticem octavae, cum cervicibus imis ab summo pectore ad imas radices capillorum sextae, <a medio pectore ad summum verticem quartae. Ipsius autem oris altitudinis tertia est pars ab imo mento ad imas nares, nasum ab imis naribus ad finem medium superciliorum tantundem, ab ea fine ad imas radices capilli frons efficitur item tertiae partis. Pes vero altitudinis corporis sextae, cubitum quartae, pectus item quartae. Reliqua quoque membra suas habent commensus proportiones, quibus etiam antiqui laudes sunt adsecuti.
Similiter vero sacrarum aedium membra ad universam totius magnitudinis summam ex partibus singulis convenientissimum debent habere commensus responsum. Item corporis centrum medium naturaliter est umbilicus. Namque si homo conlocatus fuerit supinus manibus et pedibus pansis circinique conlocatum centrum in umbilico eius, circumagendo rotundationem utrarumque manuum et pedum digiti linea tangentur. Non minus quemadmodum schema rotundationis in corpore efficitur, item quadrata designatio in eo invenietur. Nam si a pedibus imis ad summum caput mensum erit eaque mensura relata fuerit ad manus pansas, invenietur eadem latitudo uti altitudo, quemadmodum areae quae ad normam sunt quadratae. 4Ergo si ita natura conposuit corpus hominis, uti proportionibus membra ad summam figurationem eius respondeant, cum causa constituisse videntur antiqui, ut etiam in operum perfectionibus singulorum membrorum ad universam figurae speciem habeant commensus exactionem. Igitur cum in omnibus operibus ordines traderent, maxime in aedibus deorum, operum et laudes et culpae aeternae solent permanere.
“I admit that we all have an innate love for our body; I admit that we manage its safety. I don’t deny that it should be indulged, but that it must not be our master. Whoever serves their body will have many masters–one who fears too much for it, who judges everything by what the body needs. We should make our decisions not as if we live for the body but as if we could not live without it. Too great a love for the flesh troubles us with fear, weighs us down with worry, and makes us exposed to insult. Virtue is cheap for one who holds the body too dear. We should care for our bodies as much as we can, but we should be ready to surrender them to flames when reason, respect, or duty demand it.
Yet, we should live as much as possible to avoid discomfort and danger and to retreat to safe-ground by always thinking of how we can ward off fear. Unless I am in error, there are three causes of this. We fear poverty, sickness, and the dangers that come from a stronger person’s violence. Of these, nothing shakes us as much as someone else having power over us. This comes with a great shout and trouble. But the natural troubles of poverty and sickness sneak up on us quietly and suddenly, giving no warning fright to eyes or ears.”
Fateor insitam esse nobis corporis nostri caritatem; fateor nos huius gerere tutelam. Non nego indulgendum illi; serviendum nego. Multis enim serviet, qui corpori servit, qui pro illo nimium timet, qui ad illud omnia refert. Sic gerere nos debemus, non tamquam propter corpus vivere debeamus, sed tamquam non possimus sine corpore. Huius nos nimius amor timoribus inquietat, sollicitudinibus onerat, contumeliis obicit. Honestum ei vile est, cui corpus nimis carum est. Agatur eius diligentissime cura, ita tamen, ut cum exiget ratio, cum dignitas, cum fides, mittendum in ignes sit.
Nihilominus, quantum possumus, evitemus incommoda quoque, non tantum pericula, et in tutum nos reducamus excogitantes subinde, quibus possint timenda depelli. Quorum tria, nisi fallor, genera sunt: timetur inopia, timentur morbi, timentur quae per vim potentioris eveniunt. Ex his omnibus nihil nos magis concutit, quam quod ex aliena potentia inpendet. Magno enim strepitu et tumultu venit. Naturalia mala quae rettuli, inopia atque morbus, silentio subeunt nec oculis nec auribus quicquam terroris incutiunt. Ingens alterius mali pompa est.
Bust of Seneca, Italian c.1700, Albertinum, Dresden
Diogenes Laertius Vita Phil 1.3 (32)= Greek Anthology 5.79
“I am tossing you an apple. If you willingly love me,
Take it and share with me your virginity.
But if the worst should happen and you retreat.
Take the apple and think: its ripeness is preciously brief.”
“And it offers a superabundance of monkeys. Poseidonios has also claimed that while he was sailing from Cadiz to Italy, he travelled along the shore of Africa and saw a certain clutch of trees that was full of monkeys. Some were in the trees, some were below on the ground, and some had babies nestled near their breasts. He said he laughed when he saw the ones with drooping breasts or when he saw bald monkeys, or ones showing growths or other sicknesses.”
I am afraid that my work too is a camel in Egypt and people admire its bridle and its sea-purple, since even the combination of those two very fine creations, dialogue and comedy, is not enough for beauty of form if the blending lacks harmony and symmetry.
The synthesis of two fine things can be a freak—the hippocentaur is an obvious example: you would not call this creature charming, rather a monstrosity, to go by the paintings of their drunken orgies and murders. Well then, can nothing beautiful come from the synthesis of two things of high quality, as the mixture of wine and honey is exceedingly pleasant? Yes, certainly. But I cannot maintain that this is the case with my two: I’m afraid that the beauty of each has been lost in the blending.
Dialogue and comedy were not entirely friendly and compatible from the beginning.
“Right now I simply have nothing to write to you about. Certainly not politics, since we know the same things and we also know each other’s domestic matters. Jokes are all that remain, if that guy will allow it.
I am one who thinks that it is better to give in to his demands than start a war. It is too late for us to resist someone we’ve been raising against us for ten years!
What’s my strategy? Nothing unless by your judgment and nothing before I’ve completed my own affairs or given them up. Take care of yourself!”
Iam plane mihi deest quid ad te scribam; nec enim de re publica, quod uterque nostrum scit eadem, et domestica nota sunt ambobus. reliquum est iocari, si hic sinat; nam ego is sum qui illi concedi putem utilius esse quod postulat quam signa conferri; sero enim resistimus ei quem per annos decem aluimus contra nos. ‘quid senti<e>s4 igitur?’ inquis. nihil scilicet nisi de sententia tua, nec prius quidem quam nostrum negotium aut confecerimus aut deposuerimus. cura igitur ut valeas…
Top third of a surviving 4th-century Roman letter, from Vitalis to his dominus Achillio, from Franz Steffens’ Lateinische Paläographie (1903), table 13. The letter is reported to be Latin papyrus “Argent 1”, at Strassbourg.
