Erasmus, Adagia 27:

If you say what you want to say, you will hear what you do not want to hear. St. Jerome cites this in the place of a proverb in his work Against Rufinus: ‘You will hear nothing more than this, except that from the crossroads: when you say what you want, you will hear what you don’t. Terence, in his Andria, writes:

If he continues to say what he wants, he will hear what he doesn’t.

and in his prologue to Phormio:

If he had contended against him with well-chosen words, he would have heard something good in return,

and he even alluded to the same thing in his prologue to Andria:

Let them cease to talk shit, lest they learn of their own crimes.

and somewhat more obscurely, he writes in his prologue to The Eunuch:

Then, if there is anyone who thinks that something here has been spoken a little ungenerously about him, let him think so, but understand that this was not an attack…

for by the word responsum, he means an attack made in return for another. But this passage reminds me that I should contradict the error of certain people who had written in the margin that I read in the following lines because he first did harm [quia laesit prius: indeed, thus it was written in the common copies. I, before anyone else, restored the proper reading, to wit:

Just as [quale sit] he who, first translating them well and describing them badly made bad Latin plays out of good Greek ones, and who now recently did the same for Menander’s Phasma

where the phrase quale sit has the same force as the Greek οἷον or the Latin velut or quod genus sit, which we use when we are about to lay out an example. For he was recounting the act of returning an assault, and then he added an example, and then first [prius] responds to the adverb which follows, recently [nuper]. So the sense is something like, ‘who earlier had translated many plays badly, which you now do not remember, also recently produced that shitty version of the Phasma, which you can remember.’

But, to return to the subject at hand, it seems that Homer was the father of this adage, and we read in this verse of Book 20,

              Ὁπποῖόν κ᾽ εἴπῃσθα ἔπος, τοῖόν κ᾽ ἐπακούσαις, that is,

You will hear such a speech as you have just made.

Similarly, Hesiod, in his Works and Days, writes,

Εἰ δὲ κακόν τ᾽ εἴποις, τάχα κ᾽ αὐτὸς μεῖζον ἀκούσαις,  that is

It is likely that to one talking shit, much shit will be talked in turn.

And again in that same book,

Εἰ δέ κεν ἄρχῃ

Ἤ τι ἔπος εἰπὼν ἀποθύμιον ἠὲ καὶ ἔρξας,

Δὶς τόσα τίννυσθαι μεμνημένος,  that is,

If first you yourself either say or do some bad word or deed, you will see it return to you with doubled interest.

Euripides, in his Alcestis, writes:

Εἰ δ᾽ ἡμᾶς κακῶς

Ἐρεῖς, ἀκούσῃ πολλὰ κοὐ ψευδῆ κακά,  that is,

If you talk some shit to me, you will hear a lot of shit in turn, and it will be true.

But Sophocles expressed the same sentiment in a much more charming way, and Plutarch cites him thus:

Φιλεῖ γὰρ γλῶτταν ἐκχέας μάτην

Ἄκων ἀκούειν οὒς ἑκὼν εἴπῃ λόγους, that is,

Indeed, the one who has tossed about his words carelessly is usually unwilling to hear what he was willing to say.

But the phrase from Sophocles is actually:

Φιλεῖ δὲ πολλὴν γλῶσσαν ἐκχέας μάτην

Ἄκων ἀκούειν οὓς ἑκὼν εἶπεν κακῶς,  that is

The one who pours out words carelessly is usually unwilling to hear the kind of shit he talked.

Indeed, even in our own times, the common saying goes, As you greet someone, so too will you be greeted, which is to say that people will respond to you in the manner of your own speech. Plautus writes, If you speak an insult, you will hear one. Caecilius, in his Chrysius as cited by Gellius, writes: You will hear an insult if you speak one to me. The same sense can be had from that Euripidean verse which one encounters in some authors, Ἀχαλίνων στομάτων ἀνόμου τ᾽ ἀφροσύνης τὸ τέλος δυστυχία, that is, The end of unbridled mouths and ungoverned madness is calamity. Celebrated among Chilon’s sayings is, Μὴ κακολογεῖν τοὺς πλησίον·εἰ δὲ μή, ἀκούσεσθαι ἐφ᾽ οἷς λυπήσεσθαι, that is, Don’t talk shit to those near you; otherwise you will hear what may case you pain. I think one could also add the little verse which Quintilian said was popular among the common people: He did not really insult him, because the other guy insulted him first.

             

QVI QVAE VVLT DICIT, QVAE NON VVLT AVDIET

Si dixeris quae vis, quae non vis audies. Diuus Hieronymus in Rufinum nominatim prouerbii loco citat: Nihilque super hoc audies, inquit, nisi illud e triuio: cum dixeris quae vis, audies quae non vis. Terentius in Andria:  Si mihi pergit quae vult dicere, quae non vult audiet. Rursum in prologo Phormionis: Benedictis si certasset, audisset bene. Eodem allusit in prologo Andriae: Desinant Maledicere, malefacta ne noscant sua. Obscurius etiam in prologo Eunuchi: Tum si quis est, qui dictum in se inclementius Existimet esse, sic existimet, sciat  Responsum non dictum esse, responsum enim vocat conuicium conuicio redditum. Sed hic locus admonet, vt quorundam errorem coarguam, qui in margine  dscripserant me in his quae sequuntur legere, quia laesit prius: imo sic legebatur in vulgatis exemplaribus. Ego primus ex fide veterum restitui germanam lectionem, nimirum hanc:

Quale sit, prius   Qui bene vertendo et eas describendo male

Ex Graecis bonis Latinas fecit non bonas, Idem Menandri Phasma nunc nuper dedit,

vt quale sit idem valeat quod apud Graecos οἷον, apud Latinos ‘velut’ aut ‘quod genus sit’, quibus vtimur exemplum proposituri. Meminerat enim de conuicio regerendo, eius mox subiicit exemplum, deinde prius respondet ad aduerbium quod sequitur, nuper. Qui prius male verterat multas fabulas, quarum non meministis, idem nuper dedit ineptam fabulam Phasma, cuius potestis meminisse. Verum vt ad rem redeamus, primus huius adagii pater Homerus fuisse videtur, apud quem hic versus est in Iliadis Υ:

Ὁπποῖόν κ᾽ εἴπῃσθα ἔπος, τοῖόν κ᾽ ἐπακούσαις,  id est Talia dicentur tibi, qualia dixeris ipse.

Item Hesiodus libro, cui titulus Opera et dies: Εἰ δὲ κακόν τ᾽ εἴποις, τάχα κ᾽ αὐτὸς μεῖζον ἀκούσαις,  id est  Fors male dicenti dicentur plura vicissim. Rursus in eodem:

Εἰ δέ κεν ἄρχῃ

Ἤ τι ἔπος εἰπὼν ἀποθύμιον ἠὲ καὶ ἔρξας,

Δὶς τόσα τίννυσθαι μεμνημένος,  id est

Si quod prior ipse

Aut verbum aut factum dicasue gerasue molestum,

Ad te cum duplici rediturum foenore noris.

Euripides in Alcestide:

Εἰ δ᾽ ἡμᾶς κακῶς

Ἐρεῖς, ἀκούσῃ πολλὰ κοὐ ψευδῆ κακά,  id est

Si dixeris nobis male,

Mala inuicem permulta nec falsa audies.

Longe venustius idem extulit Sophocles citante Plutarcho:

Φιλεῖ γὰρ γλῶτταν ἐκχέας μάτην

Ἄκων ἀκούειν οὒς ἑκὼν εἴπῃ λόγους,  id est

Etenim solet qui dicta temere iecerit,

Audire nolens verba, quae dixit volens.

Refertur ex Sophocle:

Φιλεῖ δὲ πολλὴν γλῶσσαν ἐκχέας μάτην

Ἄκων ἀκούειν οὓς ἑκὼν εἶπεν κακῶς,  id est

Qui multa temere verba fudit, is solet

Audire nolens quae volens dixit male.

Quin etiam his nostris temporibus eiusmodi quiddam vulgo dictitant: Vt salutabis, ita et resalutaberis, hoc est vt tua fuerit oratio, ita tibi respondebitur. Plautus: Contumeliam si dices, audies. Caecilius in Chrysio apud Gellium: Audibis male, si male dicis mihi. Eodem pertinet Euripideum illud apud autores passim obuium: Ἀχαλίνων στομάτων ἀνόμου τ᾽ ἀφροσύνης τὸ τέλος δυστυχία, id est Infrenis oris et iniquae vecordiae finis seu vectigal, calamitas. Celebratur et hoc inter Chilonis apophthegmata: Μὴ κακολογεῖν τοὺς πλησίον· εἰ δὲ μή, ἀκούσεσθαι ἐφ᾽ οἷς λυπήσεσθαι, id est Non esse maledicendum iis, quibuscum agimus; alioquin audituros, quae molestiam adferant. Huc arbitror asscribendum versiculum, quem Quintilianus vt vulgo iactatum citat: Nec male respondit, male enim prior ille rogarat.

Erasmus, Adagia 28

This proverb is taken in term from the oldest tragedy of Livius Andronicus, which is called The Trojan Horse: ‘The Trojans understand too late.’ This is taken up by Cicero in his Familiar Letters. He says, ‘You know that in The Trojan Horse there is this line: “the Trojans understand too late.”’ This is an apt expression for those who foolishly regret their deeds when it is too late. Since indeed, the Trojans, after suffering so many disasters, only began to discuss returning Helen in the tenth year of the war. If they had immediately given her back to Menelaus when he had asked at the beginning, they would have exempted themselves from innumerable calamities. Euripides writes in his Orestes:

Ὀψέ γε φρονεῖς εὖ, τότε λιποῦσ᾽ αἰσχρῶς δόμους,

that is, But now surely you understand too late, since you then left the home                shamefully.

For these are the words of Electra to Helen. It is also recalled by Festus Pompeius in the inscription of a proverb. According to Plutarch, Demades was accustomed to say that the Athenians never decided on peace unless they had already put on their mourning clothes, hinting to the fact that they were more desirous of waging war than was appropriate, and did not wish to think of peace unless they had first been warned by the loss of their own. But how much more foolish than the Athenians are we, who after learving from the sufferings of so many years even now do not hate war, and do not even finally begin to think of the peace which should always exist among Christians.

SERO SAPIVNT PHRYGES

Hoc prouerbium ex vetustissima tragoedia Liuii Andronici mutuo sumptum est, quae inscribitur Equus Troianus: Sero sapiunt Phryges. Vsurpatur a Cicerone in Epistolis familiaribus: In equo, inquit, Troiano scis esse: sero sapiunt Phryges. Conuenit in eos, quos stulte factorum sero poenitet. Siquidem Troiani tot iam acceptis cladibus vix decimo demum anno de restituenda Helena consultare coeperunt; quam si statim initio reposcenti Menelao reddidissent, innumerabilibus sese calamitatibus subduxissent. Euripides in Oreste:

 Ὀψέ γε φρονεῖς εὖ, τότε λιποῦσ᾽ αἰσχρῶς δόμους,

id est. At nunc profecto serius sapis bene, 

Cum tunc penates turpiter reliqueris.

Nam verba sunt ad Helenam Electrae. Refertur et a Festo Pompeio prouerbii titulo. Demades autore Plutarcho dicere solebat Athenienses nunquam decernere pacem nisi pullis vestibus indutos, innuens eos bellandi cupidiores quam sat esset, nec nisi clade suorum admonitos de pace cogitare. At nos quanto sumus Atheniensibus vecordiores, qui ne tot quidem annorum malis docti bellum odimus nec de pace, quam inter Christianos perpetuam esse oportebat, tandem incipimus cogitare.

Erasmus, Adagia 25:

Diogenianus thinks that this has the same force: Κινῶ τὸν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς, that is, I move the die from the sacred line. This is said of those who are about to undertake the most extreme measures. Julius Pollux, laying this out in his ninth book, says that the adage derives from a certain kind of dice game, and that the game was of this sort: for each of the players, there were five little stones placed upon the same number of lines, from which Sophocles said πεσσὰ πεντέγραμμα, that is, the dice of the five lines. Between those lines (five on each side) there was one in the middle, which they called sacred. Whoever moved the die past that point was said to have moved the die of the sacred line. But that never happened except when the game demanded it, when the player needed to flee to their last resort.

Plato employs this adage in the fifth book of his Laws: Καθάπερ πεττῶν ἀφ᾽ ἱεροῦ, that is, As if from the sacred die. Plutarch, in his book, Whether the Republic Should Be Run by an Old Man, writes: Τελευταίαν ὥσπερ τὴν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς ἐπάγουσιν ἡμῖν τὸ γῆρας, that is, they charge us with senility as if moving the die from the sacred line, which is to say, this is the gravest charge. Plutarch also says in his Comparison of Terrestrial and Marine Things: Φέρε κινήσαντες τὴν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς βραχέα περὶ θειότητος αὐτῶν καὶ μαντικῆς εἴπωμεν, that is, Come on, let’s move the die from the sacred line and talk a little about their divinity and divination. And again he writes in his essay Against Colotes: Εὐθὺς οὖν τὸν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς κεκίνηκεν ὁ Κολώτης, that is, Colotes straightaway moved the die from the sacred line, which is to say that he immediately proceeded to the most extreme measure, so that he could attack the judgment of Apollo concerning Socrates. Plutarch also writes in the life of Martius Coriolanus, about the Roman people being disturbed by Coriolanus’ threats, Ἄρα τὴν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς ἀφῆκεν, that is, he tossed away the die taken from the sacred line, because the Romans, with all hope of success having been lost, fleed to the religion of the gods and sent priests, temple custodians, initiators, and augurs to supplicate the gods. Theocritus alludes to this in his Bucolics: Καὶ τὸν ἀπὸ γραμμᾶς κινεῖ λίθον, that is, and he moves the stone from the little line, which I have mentioned elsewhere.

MOVEBO TALVM A SACRA LINEA

Idem pollere putat Diogenianus: Κινῶ τὸν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς, id est Sacrae lineae talum moueo. De iis, qui extrema parant experiri. Id Iulius Pollux libro nono exponens ait a ludo quopiam tesserarum natum esse adagium. Lusum autem fuisse huiusmodi, vt vtrique ludentium essent calculi quinque totidem impositi lineis; vnde et Sophocles dixerit πεσσὰ πεντέγραμμα, id est tesserae quinque linearum. Inter eas lineas, vtrinque quinas, vnam fuisse mediam, quam sacram vocabant; vnde qui talum mouisset, is sacrae lineae calculum mouere dicebatur. Id vero non fiebat, nisi cum res posceret, vt ludens ad extrema confugeret auxilia. Vsurpat hoc adagium Plato libro De legibus quinto: Καθάπερ πεττῶν ἀφ᾽ ἱεροῦ, id est Tanquam a sacra tessera. Plutarchus in libro, qui inscribitur An seni sit gerenda respublica: Τελευταίαν ὥσπερ τὴν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς ἐπάγουσιν ἡμῖν τὸ γῆρας, id est Postremam nobis tanquam a sacra linea senectam allegant, hoc est veluti causam grauissimam. Idem commentario De comparatione terrestrium ac marinorum: Φέρε κινήσαντες τὴν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς βραχέα περὶ θειότητος αὐτῶν καὶ μαντικῆς εἴπωμεν, id est Age moto talo a sacra linea paucis de diuinitate eorum et diuinatione dicamus. Rursum idem Aduersus Colotam Epicureum: Εὐθὺς οὖν τὸν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς κεκίνηκεν ὁ Κολώτης, id est Protinus igitur talum a sacra mouit Colotes, hoc est statim id quod est grauissimum aggressus est, vt impugnaret Apollinis de Socrate iudicium. Idem in vita Martii Coriolanide ciuitate Romana ob Coriolani minas perturbata: Ἄρα τὴν ἀφ᾽ ἱερᾶς ἀφῆκεν, id est Sublatam a sacra linea tesseram misit. Desperatis enim rebus ad deorum religionem confugiebat supplicatum missis sacrificis, aedituis, initiatoribus, auguribus etc. Huc allusit et Theocritus in Bucoliastis: Καὶ τὸν ἀπὸ γραμμᾶς κινεῖ λίθον, id est Atque a lineola lapidem mouet, de quo nobis et alias facta mentio.