Monday Morning PSA: What Does Honor Mean to the Dead?

Iliad 9.315-320

“I don’t think that I would obey Atreus’ son Agamemnon
Nor should the rest of the Danaans, since there is no recompense at all
For them to constantly struggle among hostile men.
The portion is the same for the man who hangs back and the one who fights hard:
The coward and the brave man fall into the same honor;
Both the lazy man and the man who works hard die the same.”

οὔτ’ ἔμεγ’ ᾿Ατρεΐδην ᾿Αγαμέμνονα πεισέμεν οἴω
οὔτ’ ἄλλους Δαναούς, ἐπεὶ οὐκ ἄρα τις χάρις ἦεν
μάρνασθαι δηΐοισιν ἐπ’ ἀνδράσι νωλεμὲς αἰεί.
ἴση μοῖρα μένοντι καὶ εἰ μάλα τις πολεμίζοι•
ἐν δὲ ἰῇ τιμῇ ἠμὲν κακὸς ἠδὲ καὶ ἐσθλός•
κάτθαν’ ὁμῶς ὅ τ’ ἀεργὸς ἀνὴρ ὅ τε πολλὰ ἐοργώς.

Achilles, of course, realizes that there are different answers for different questions…Oh, he also compares himself to a mother bird (9.323-325)

Plutarch, Comparison of Alcibiades and Coriolanus, 1.4

 

 It is shameful to flatter the people to gain power; but to rule through fear, depravity and oppression is not merely shameful, it is unjust.

 

αἰσχρὸν μὲν γὰρ τὸ κολακεύειν δῆμον ἐπὶ τῷ δύνασθαι, τὸ δ᾽ ἰσχύειν ἐκ τοῦ φοβερὸν εἶναι καὶ κακοῦν καὶ πιέζειν πρὸς τῷ αἰσχρῷ καὶ ἄδικόν ἐστιν.

 

Alcibiades, you might know. But Coriolanus is not exactly a household name (Unless, say, that house is William Shakespeare’s)

Thucydides 2. 44. 3-5

 

 

Only the love of honor is ageless; being honored, not making a profit, brings joy to the uselessness of old age

 

τὸ γὰρ φιλότιμον ἀγήρων μόνον, καὶ οὐκ ἐν τῷ ἀχρείῳ τῆς ἡλικίας τὸ κερδαίνειν, ὥσπερ τινές φασι, μᾶλλον τέρπει, ἀλλὰ τὸ τιμᾶσθαι.

 

The full text.

 

Thucydides 2. 44. 3-5

 

τὸ γὰρ φιλότιμον ἀγήρων μόνον, καὶ οὐκ ἐν τῷ ἀχρείῳ τῆς ἡλικίας τὸ κερδαίνειν, ὥσπερ τινές φασι, μᾶλλον τέρπει, ἀλλὰ τὸ τιμᾶσθαι.

 

 

Only the love of honor is ageless; being honored, not making a profit, brings joy to the uselessness of old age